0000573: Helicopters with AFM enabled do not behave like they should

(0001273)
SomeSangheili (reporter)
2015-04-27 05:13
edited on: 2015-04-27 05:15

I think they should just give RHS helicopters the closest looking vanilla AFMs
Eg: Ghosthawk AFM - Blackhawk
Huron AFM - Chinook
Hellcat AFM - Venom
Kajman or Blackfoot AFM - Apache and Hind
etc.

(0001274)
Jonpas (reporter)
2015-04-27 05:32

Indeed, that would be a great step forward! Further tweaking would definitely be much easier as well.

(0001279)
reyhard (administrator)
2015-04-27 11:57

it's already done that way (except mi24 which I tried to model correctly & is missing vortex state ring data)

(0001283)
Jonpas (reporter)
2015-04-27 17:29

If that is so then something is terribly wrong. I believe we are on the same page that helicopters can't just go -+20 vertical speed without falling into vortex ring state or something falling off, have no way of breaking except crash and so on. Getting this tweaked to act more like vanilla ones would be a good way to go, right now (even if it does work as described above), it's nowhere near similar as to how it should act.

(0001285)
reyhard (administrator)
2015-04-27 19:15

probably not going to happen soon (except mi24) since AFM tweaking is really hard job

(0001287)
Jonpas (reporter)
2015-04-27 19:32

I understand that, it's a very complex system. What I don't understand is, why don't they behave similar at all even though they have some form of vanilla AFM configurations?

(0001289)
ruPaladin (reporter)
2015-04-27 20:13

Disable autotrim in settings. I am in doubt that it will be easier than standard model.

(0001290)
Jonpas (reporter)
2015-04-27 20:24

That's not the point. What is is helicopter going vertically up and down in incredible speeds, is maneuverable like nothing else. It ruins the fun with RHS helicopters.

(0001359)
Matazi (reporter)
2015-05-10 07:10

The inherent problem is that the drag model is way off. The amount of crosswind drag imposed by forward movement is severely reduced. You should not be able to fight forward movement with anti torque at high speeds without completely damaging ATRQ. Autotrim on or off does not have any bearing on this.

Further, lift generation may be too excessive. Falling into VRS happens, but in a flat drop, you can nearly instantly up-collective out of it.

(0001487)
Soul_Assassin (administrator)
2015-05-21 15:14

Guys, untill a AFM specialist and enthusiast steps up this is unlikely to improve much. This thing is just too complex and time consuming, and we ourselves dont play with AFM enabled.

Notes
(0001273) SomeSangheili (reporter) 2015-04-27 05:13 edited on: 2015-04-27 05:15	I think they should just give RHS helicopters the closest looking vanilla AFMs Eg: Ghosthawk AFM - Blackhawk Huron AFM - Chinook Hellcat AFM - Venom Kajman or Blackfoot AFM - Apache and Hind etc.

(0001274) Jonpas (reporter) 2015-04-27 05:32	Indeed, that would be a great step forward! Further tweaking would definitely be much easier as well.

(0001279) reyhard (administrator) 2015-04-27 11:57	it's already done that way (except mi24 which I tried to model correctly & is missing vortex state ring data)

(0001283) Jonpas (reporter) 2015-04-27 17:29	If that is so then something is terribly wrong. I believe we are on the same page that helicopters can't just go -+20 vertical speed without falling into vortex ring state or something falling off, have no way of breaking except crash and so on. Getting this tweaked to act more like vanilla ones would be a good way to go, right now (even if it does work as described above), it's nowhere near similar as to how it should act.

(0001285) reyhard (administrator) 2015-04-27 19:15	probably not going to happen soon (except mi24) since AFM tweaking is really hard job

(0001287) Jonpas (reporter) 2015-04-27 19:32	I understand that, it's a very complex system. What I don't understand is, why don't they behave similar at all even though they have some form of vanilla AFM configurations?

(0001289) ruPaladin (reporter) 2015-04-27 20:13	Disable autotrim in settings. I am in doubt that it will be easier than standard model.

(0001290) Jonpas (reporter) 2015-04-27 20:24	That's not the point. What is is helicopter going vertically up and down in incredible speeds, is maneuverable like nothing else. It ruins the fun with RHS helicopters.

(0001359) Matazi (reporter) 2015-05-10 07:10	The inherent problem is that the drag model is way off. The amount of crosswind drag imposed by forward movement is severely reduced. You should not be able to fight forward movement with anti torque at high speeds without completely damaging ATRQ. Autotrim on or off does not have any bearing on this. Further, lift generation may be too excessive. Falling into VRS happens, but in a flat drop, you can nearly instantly up-collective out of it.

(0001487) Soul_Assassin (administrator) 2015-05-21 15:14	Guys, untill a AFM specialist and enthusiast steps up this is unlikely to improve much. This thing is just too complex and time consuming, and we ourselves dont play with AFM enabled.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2015-04-27 04:32	Jonpas	New Issue
2015-04-27 05:13	SomeSangheili	Note Added: 0001273
2015-04-27 05:15	SomeSangheili	Note Edited: 0001273	View Revisions
2015-04-27 05:32	Jonpas	Note Added: 0001274
2015-04-27 11:57	reyhard	Priority	normal => low
2015-04-27 11:57	reyhard	Note Added: 0001279
2015-04-27 17:29	Jonpas	Note Added: 0001283
2015-04-27 19:15	reyhard	Note Added: 0001285
2015-04-27 19:32	Jonpas	Note Added: 0001287
2015-04-27 20:13	ruPaladin	Note Added: 0001289
2015-04-27 20:24	Jonpas	Note Added: 0001290
2015-05-10 07:10	Matazi	Note Added: 0001359
2015-05-21 15:14	Soul_Assassin	Note Added: 0001487
2015-05-21 15:14	Soul_Assassin	Status	new => closed
2015-05-21 15:14	Soul_Assassin	Assigned To	=> Soul_Assassin
2015-05-21 15:14	Soul_Assassin	Resolution	open => not fixable

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