0002654: Feedback on US weapons

(0005333)
omL (reporter)
2016-09-19 03:18
edited on: 2016-09-19 03:30

http://feedback.rhsmods.org/view.php?id=2443 [^] made a similar report about the m249 a while ago, no responses but didn't contain any media so that's probably why.

The muzzle flash affects the US weapons a lot more than the RU weapons as they typically have a higher rate of fire in all categories. It's very noticeable on the M249 for this reason. Renders it slightly ineffective in my experience for PvP gameplay (TacBF), you lose track of targets very easily. http://plays.tv/video/5799c6ba38d8c57289/comparison-rhs-m249-pip-bi-lim-85-m249-spw-muzzle-flash?from=user [^]

Image of the muzzle flash from an AR-15 with a standard A2 birdcage flash hider in complete darkness : http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/FH-A2.jpg [^] from this article http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/06/jeremy-s/ar-15-flash-hider-shootout/ [^]

The shotgun is extremely over-powered. 00' buckshot doesn't even penetrate helmets in reality but in game you can kill from 150m, no problem.

Also some footage of M4A1s in full auto : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gm_VfMUAEw, [^] https://youtu.be/1xjs1Q_ppkQ?t=4m27s [^]

(0005334)
reyhard (administrator)
2016-09-19 16:27

1 & 3 are not true
5 & 6 is kind of arma limitation - vest use hitpoints & there is no way to make shotguns deadly towards unarmed targets while retaining low penetration of vests. caliber parameter is used only against objects. also, there is whole big subject about how arma handle non fatal injuries which I don't want to describe here.

(0005335)
omL (reporter)
2016-09-19 19:25

@reyhard

3.) video of M249 in slow motion captured @600fps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAr5fxbwplE [^]

(0005336)
reyhard (administrator)
2016-09-19 20:14

I was speaking about first number 3 ;)

(0005337)
omL (reporter)
2016-09-19 20:48

@reyhard I'd argue that the M16 muzzle flash is still a bit too much. If you're talking about the M4A1 carbine or a CQB-R(Mk18) then I could possibly agree but that would still be dependent on the rounds being fired. Often you'll find MK18s with some sort of aftermarket muzzle device, though.

(0005338)
Crow (reporter)
2016-09-20 10:49

>1 & 3 are not true

Evidence? What are you basing this on? Movies? Myself and other members of my group have fired all of these weapons in real life and agree they are wrong. The physics and scientific analysis demonstrates the same. And I've shown you youtube videos to demonstrate the reality. In what way are they not true?

(0005339)
reyhard (administrator)
2016-09-20 11:46

values from cfg. you have to understand it's a game and it has limitations. i.e. whole body armor system is based on hitpoints and it's extremely hard to make it balanced between hits on armor & non protected areas since increasing hit value (so less shots are required to destroy vest) may result in one shot kills on limbs.

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Soldier_Protection [^] here you can read a little bit about it

beside that, I tested both m4 & ak74 and couldn't reproduce that discrepancy in number of bullets to kill someone so i'm a little bit convinced you are slightly biased here

as for muzzle flashes, it's planned at some point to replace them with some custom ones (right now those are bis effects). till then, it's going to be kept as it is

(0005403)
reyhard (administrator)
2016-10-10 12:05

tweaked 3'' & 4

(0005405)
omL (reporter)
2016-10-11 01:43

for next patch ? :)

Notes
(0005333) omL (reporter) 2016-09-19 03:18 edited on: 2016-09-19 03:30	http://feedback.rhsmods.org/view.php?id=2443 [^] made a similar report about the m249 a while ago, no responses but didn't contain any media so that's probably why. The muzzle flash affects the US weapons a lot more than the RU weapons as they typically have a higher rate of fire in all categories. It's very noticeable on the M249 for this reason. Renders it slightly ineffective in my experience for PvP gameplay (TacBF), you lose track of targets very easily. http://plays.tv/video/5799c6ba38d8c57289/comparison-rhs-m249-pip-bi-lim-85-m249-spw-muzzle-flash?from=user [^] Image of the muzzle flash from an AR-15 with a standard A2 birdcage flash hider in complete darkness : http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/FH-A2.jpg [^] from this article http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/06/jeremy-s/ar-15-flash-hider-shootout/ [^] The shotgun is extremely over-powered. 00' buckshot doesn't even penetrate helmets in reality but in game you can kill from 150m, no problem. Also some footage of M4A1s in full auto : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gm_VfMUAEw, [^] https://youtu.be/1xjs1Q_ppkQ?t=4m27s [^]

(0005334) reyhard (administrator) 2016-09-19 16:27	1 & 3 are not true 5 & 6 is kind of arma limitation - vest use hitpoints & there is no way to make shotguns deadly towards unarmed targets while retaining low penetration of vests. caliber parameter is used only against objects. also, there is whole big subject about how arma handle non fatal injuries which I don't want to describe here.

(0005335) omL (reporter) 2016-09-19 19:25	@reyhard 3.) video of M249 in slow motion captured @600fps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAr5fxbwplE [^]

(0005336) reyhard (administrator) 2016-09-19 20:14	I was speaking about first number 3 ;)

(0005337) omL (reporter) 2016-09-19 20:48	@reyhard I'd argue that the M16 muzzle flash is still a bit too much. If you're talking about the M4A1 carbine or a CQB-R(Mk18) then I could possibly agree but that would still be dependent on the rounds being fired. Often you'll find MK18s with some sort of aftermarket muzzle device, though.

(0005338) Crow (reporter) 2016-09-20 10:49	>1 & 3 are not true Evidence? What are you basing this on? Movies? Myself and other members of my group have fired all of these weapons in real life and agree they are wrong. The physics and scientific analysis demonstrates the same. And I've shown you youtube videos to demonstrate the reality. In what way are they not true?

(0005339) reyhard (administrator) 2016-09-20 11:46	values from cfg. you have to understand it's a game and it has limitations. i.e. whole body armor system is based on hitpoints and it's extremely hard to make it balanced between hits on armor & non protected areas since increasing hit value (so less shots are required to destroy vest) may result in one shot kills on limbs. https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3_Soldier_Protection [^] here you can read a little bit about it beside that, I tested both m4 & ak74 and couldn't reproduce that discrepancy in number of bullets to kill someone so i'm a little bit convinced you are slightly biased here as for muzzle flashes, it's planned at some point to replace them with some custom ones (right now those are bis effects). till then, it's going to be kept as it is

(0005403) reyhard (administrator) 2016-10-10 12:05	tweaked 3'' & 4

(0005405) omL (reporter) 2016-10-11 01:43	for next patch ? :)

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2016-09-10 19:30	Crow	New Issue
2016-09-10 19:31	reyhard	Severity	major => minor
2016-09-19 03:18	omL	Note Added: 0005333
2016-09-19 03:30	omL	Note Edited: 0005333	View Revisions
2016-09-19 16:27	reyhard	Note Added: 0005334
2016-09-19 19:25	omL	Note Added: 0005335
2016-09-19 20:14	reyhard	Note Added: 0005336
2016-09-19 20:48	omL	Note Added: 0005337
2016-09-20 10:49	Crow	Note Added: 0005338
2016-09-20 11:46	reyhard	Note Added: 0005339
2016-10-10 12:05	reyhard	Note Added: 0005403
2016-10-10 12:05	reyhard	Status	new => resolved
2016-10-10 12:05	reyhard	Fixed in Version	=> 0.4.2
2016-10-10 12:05	reyhard	Resolution	open => fixed
2016-10-10 12:05	reyhard	Assigned To	=> reyhard
2016-10-11 01:43	omL	Note Added: 0005405

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