0004568: Ai chopper pilots ATGM usage frequency

Notes
(0008449) reyhard (administrator) 2018-09-06 08:49	Could you provide some more details? Tried both AH-64 & Mi-24 and they were able to destroy ground targets. Are you running some other mods? If so, could you try without them and provide .rpt file https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Crash_Files#Arma_3 [^] You can also attach some test mission if issue still persist for you

(0008451) ivory12 (reporter) 2018-09-06 15:31 edited on: 2018-09-06 15:41	Hey reyhard, thanks for the feedback. I had a another test, actually had some mods running and the copters did let off a couple of missiles. It seems aligning the pylons to different crew members had effects on whether or not they'd use rockets or missiles more oftenly. They'd still prioritise rockets over missiles but they do shoot the missiles, however not as frequently as the kajman and sometimes it gets them killed by mounted lmgs when they waste time strafing with rockets. It seems to kajman pilots will always use missiles first while mi24/28s use a combination of both but are less accurate. I uploaded some pictures of the helis seeing a tank, and basically immediately resorting to using rockets only using missiles much later. If you're inquiring about mods used, i did have cup and some non interfering uniform/gun mods installed. Turned off everything else that had scripting, modules or ai behaviour like achillies. Couldn't touch ACE/CBA as it was essential for rhs to run. If you believe this issue even if present is isolated to me only feel free to close or delete this post.

(0008452) reyhard (administrator) 2018-09-06 15:56	Well, Kajman is using IR guided missiles and they are fire & forget where Mi-24/28 use SACLOS missiles where gunner needs to constantly aim at target. So there are no lock on missiles on neither Mi-24 or 28 ". It seems aligning the pylons to different" What do you mean here?

(0008455) kibyde (reporter) 2018-09-08 05:56	I think he means "assigning" the weapons to either the Gunner or the Pilot.

(0008458) ivory12 (reporter) 2018-09-08 10:36	Sorry for responding rather late, but yes it's something to do witht he alignment of missile to either gunner or driver. The gunner doesn't really switch to missile often and instead uses cannons to shoot tanks, and the driver always prefers rockets as opposed to missiles even when missiles are available. But when one pod of each type is aligned to both it seems they use both although rockets always takes priority.

(0008460) reyhard (administrator) 2018-09-08 11:31	so if you add missiles on all pylons & assign them to gunner then it works?

(0008478) ivory12 (reporter) 2018-09-12 05:33	I haven't looked into it for sometime, but yes it mostly has to do with the gunner. The driver will use whatever it has available but the gunner doesn't seem to use missiles if missiles are his only choice of weapon aside from the turret. The gunner is the one that seems to have the most problems, you'd think the gunner should have a easier time and better for firing missiles than the driver but it's the opposite.

(0008480) reyhard (administrator) 2018-09-12 08:47 edited on: 2018-09-12 08:48	Could you test if it's happening without ACE/CBA? Have you tried just like I said removing unguided rockets from pilot and only add missiles to gunner?

(0008496) ivory12 (reporter) 2018-09-15 14:27 edited on: 2018-09-15 14:28	Tested again without ace/cba, ai seems to be even dumber that m1a2s could easily take out a mi24/28 because it doesn't use anything besides the rockets (gunner in control of only missiles). I also removed all the rockets from the vehicle and same thing, ai is really bad with heli missiles especially hinds. Mi28 however are less of a total flop if all missile pylons are assigned to drivers they could let off a couple 9m120s. All hostile vehicles were tanks (slammer/usa m1a2) btw moving and not moving.

(0008497) reyhard (administrator) 2018-09-15 15:04	What difficulty level are you using? I asked if you tried to assign all weapons to gunner - have you tried it yet?

(0008511) ivory12 (reporter) 2018-09-16 11:36 edited on: 2018-09-16 11:52	Yes i did, it seems the driver keeps ordering nonsensical orders for the gunner to switch to rockets despite having a clear shot of the target so maybe that's why, because he does it whenever he's 1km or closer to the target. Seems giving the driver some weapons actually increases it's efficacy so the gunner has more autonomy to act upon. So in summary the ai does shoot atgms with gunner having all the weaponry (rockets armed or not), but only 2km or farther from a target and barely lets off 1 or 2 missiles before switching to rockets or banks to a new firing position and leaves itself vulnerable to ground fire. I uploaded the difficulty but i think it's high enough for the ai to be competent.

(0008513) reyhard (administrator) 2018-09-16 13:33 edited on: 2018-09-16 18:14	And have you tried to make ATGM only loadut for gunner? Yes i have, the mi24 only lets off 1-2 missiles (gunner armed with 8 9m120s and nothing else besides cannon) before the pilot goes on a joyride and the tank shoots it down when it has its back turned on it, even if the tank is harmless the chopper takes ages to line up for another shot and sometimes can't even get that right. The mi28 is alittle better than the mi24 and i dunno about the ka52. The scenario is: in virtual reality i placed the helicopter 2km or farther away from the tank and simply observe from a distance, it will fire like that everytime, might let off a couple of missiles before it has to strafe as if its some kind of ww2 plane while being completely vulnerable.

(0008515) ivory12 (reporter) 2018-09-16 18:19	I dunno what else to add really, either the ai has trouble handling these weapons or my installation is bugged. Vanilia ir missiles right now anyway seems to be the most functional for ai as they never have trouble using them. Just test a kajman and a mi24 and see which one takes out the target faster.

(0008659) reyhard (administrator) 2018-09-30 13:57	There is no point in comparing Fire & Forget weapon & manual controlled missile so I think it's correct that Mi-48 takes out target first

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2018-09-06 07:51	ivory12	New Issue
2018-09-06 08:49	reyhard	Note Added: 0008449
2018-09-06 08:49	reyhard	Assigned To	=> reyhard
2018-09-06 08:49	reyhard	Status	new => feedback
2018-09-06 15:31	ivory12	Note Added: 0008451
2018-09-06 15:31	ivory12	Status	feedback => new
2018-09-06 15:32	ivory12	Note Edited: 0008451	View Revisions
2018-09-06 15:33	ivory12	File Added: 20180906211216_1.jpg
2018-09-06 15:34	ivory12	File Added: 20180906205151_1.jpg
2018-09-06 15:41	ivory12	Note Edited: 0008451	View Revisions
2018-09-06 15:56	reyhard	Note Added: 0008452
2018-09-06 15:56	reyhard	Status	new => feedback
2018-09-08 05:56	kibyde	Note Added: 0008455
2018-09-08 10:36	ivory12	Note Added: 0008458
2018-09-08 10:36	ivory12	Status	feedback => new
2018-09-08 11:31	reyhard	Note Added: 0008460
2018-09-08 11:31	reyhard	Status	new => feedback
2018-09-08 11:40	reyhard	Severity	major => minor
2018-09-12 05:33	ivory12	Note Added: 0008478
2018-09-12 05:33	ivory12	Status	feedback => new
2018-09-12 08:47	reyhard	Note Added: 0008480
2018-09-12 08:47	reyhard	Status	new => feedback
2018-09-12 08:48	reyhard	Note Edited: 0008480	View Revisions
2018-09-15 14:27	ivory12	Note Added: 0008496
2018-09-15 14:27	ivory12	Status	feedback => new
2018-09-15 14:28	ivory12	Note Edited: 0008496	View Revisions
2018-09-15 15:04	reyhard	Note Added: 0008497
2018-09-15 15:04	reyhard	Status	new => feedback
2018-09-16 11:32	ivory12	File Added: 20180916182410_1.jpg
2018-09-16 11:36	ivory12	Note Added: 0008511
2018-09-16 11:36	ivory12	Status	feedback => new
2018-09-16 11:40	ivory12	Note Edited: 0008511	View Revisions
2018-09-16 11:52	ivory12	Note Edited: 0008511	View Revisions
2018-09-16 13:33	reyhard	Note Added: 0008513
2018-09-16 13:33	reyhard	Status	new => feedback
2018-09-16 18:10	ivory12	Note Edited: 0008513	View Revisions
2018-09-16 18:14	ivory12	Note Edited: 0008513	View Revisions
2018-09-16 18:19	ivory12	Note Added: 0008515
2018-09-16 18:19	ivory12	Status	feedback => new
2018-09-18 22:32	reyhard	Summary	Ai chopper pilots cannot use any lock on weapons (laser/wire) => Ai chopper pilots ATGM usage frequency
2018-09-30 13:57	reyhard	Note Added: 0008659
2018-09-30 13:57	reyhard	Status	new => closed
2018-09-30 13:57	reyhard	Resolution	open => unable to reproduce

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