0006786: T80-T90 closed-type machine guns.

Notes
(0012280) reyhard (administrator) 2022-12-19 13:49 edited on: 2022-12-19 13:51	Can you perhaps say which exactly tank in RHS has wrong configuration when it comes to HMG? Variants of T80 which have remote MG, have such option in game.

(0012281) TotTIM (reporter) 2022-12-19 22:47 edited on: 2022-12-19 22:50	I'm using the latest version of Arma 3, ran RHS without additional mods. The commander's machine gun does not work on the T-80UK, T80-U, T-80U(45M) and T80UM tanks. They have a machine gun model, but it doesn't work. (machine guns must be open type) Wishes: I would also like to wish to add new versions of the T-80 base tanks with a closed type of machine gun. For example, the RHS has a T-80UE-1 tank with a closed commander's machine gunner. But the tank does not have a thermal imager on the main arrow. This site describes the 2nd version of this tank with a thermal imager on the main gun: https://odetievbrony.ru/viewtopic.php?id=344 [^] screen: https://skr.sh/i/191222/PP8Tgrzd.jpg?download=1&name=%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%BE%D1%82%2020-12-2022%2000:50:14.jpg [^] More suggestions: You can add the Ukrainian version of the T-72UA4 tank (T-72UA4; Ukraine) of a closed type (it is not necessary to make it by the RF Armed Forces, you can add it to some kind of civil resistance) Screen T-72UA4 WIKI eng: https://skr.sh/i/191222/Nb7gCY7H.jpg?download=1&name=%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%BE%D1%82%2020-12-2022%2000:43:26.jpg [^]

(0012282) reyhard (administrator) 2022-12-20 08:37	"The commander's machine gun does not work on the T-80UK, T80-U, T-80U(45M) and T80UM tanks" all of those tanks don't have remote machine gun in real life. You can do some more research if you don't believe me. First of all, take a look at how those machine guns are mounted - they are pintled mounted which means they can be only operated from outside.

(0012283) TotTIM (reporter) 2022-12-20 11:48	I'm sorry. I realized that they have open-type machine guns and the question about open-type machine guns is closed. I'm talking about a new problem that I recently discovered. The models I have listed are T-80UK, T80-U, T-80U (45M) and T80UM. Their commander's machine gun does not work at all. I tried to sit behind them and shoot, in open mode, and I didn’t succeed. Do I have to open a new reporting ticket for this?

(0012284) TotTIM (reporter) 2022-12-20 12:08	https://skr.sh/i/201222/5IG0xbJv.jpg?download=1&name=%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%BE%D1%82%2020-12-2022%2013:50:47.jpg [^] https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2-80%D0%A3 [^] Sorry, my translator didn't translate well. I also want to point out the incorrect information in the English-language wiki that the T80U does not indicate the presence or absence of a machine gun from the commander. Russian Wiki tells in more detail what is in the T80U line and what was put on it in the following models. Also in the following models it is not indicated that the machine gun was removed from the tank. Same. Let me remind you that an open-type machine gun can be freely placed on any tank, since there are mounts for it ... And it can also be removed. It is produced separately and, if desired, for tasks, the machine gun can be removed or installed before the battle in a matter of minutes. https://skr.sh/i/201222/wW7K3qjG.jpg?download=1&name=%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%BE%D1%82%2020-12-2022%2013:59:43.jpg [^] https://skr.sh/i/201222/UuSZgKgE.jpg?download=1&name=%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%BE%D1%82%2020-12-2022%2014:03:54.jpg [^] https://skr.sh/i/201222/PKT2CVgr.jpg?download=1&name=%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%BE%D1%82%2020-12-2022%2014:04:47.jpg [^] https://skr.sh/i/201222/VAkEPK14.jpg?download=1&name=%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%BE%D1%82%2020-12-2022%2014:08:19.jpg [^]

(0012285) TotTIM (reporter) 2022-12-20 12:30	A good example is on the screen from Wikipedia. T80U with NSV machine gun on the turret. So, a machine gun for the commander, if desired, can be installed on absolutely any tank. It seems to me that it is easier to give the map creator the opportunity to choose whether to enable or disable the possibility of using a machine gun on tanks of these models. Since if we Google the T80U tank , we will see a machine gun in many photos of the NSVT ... Although the Wiki of the English version does not indicate about this is not a word. T-80U https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:T-80U_(5).jpg?uselang=ru [^] https://skr.sh/i/201222/e5JPdS1d.jpg?download=1&name=%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%BE%D1%82%2020-12-2022%2014:26:10.jpg [^] T80-UK https://skr.sh/i/201222/IexAJepm.jpg?download=1&name=%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%BE%D1%82%2020-12-2022%2014:29:16.jpg [^]

(0012286) TotTIM (reporter) 2022-12-20 12:42	I noticed the T80 has a mount on the turret. It does not allow the commander to fire freely 360 degrees. It is quite possible only at 180 in the front hemisphere. https://skr.sh/sHUcCWhEd80 [^] And most likely, aiming in this position, he will be able to shoot no more than 90-120 degrees

(0012287) TotTIM (reporter) 2022-12-20 12:47	https://skr.sh/i/201222/EHdkChAF.jpg?download=1&name=%D0%A1%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%88%D0%BE%D1%82%2020-12-2022%2014:44:16.jpg [^] Several fasteners for different positions of the NSVT.

(0012288) reyhard (administrator) 2022-12-20 13:44	https://feedback.rhsmods.org/view.php?id=6531 [^] there is no need for such ticket. It was already explained few times on that feedback tracker that such pintle mount is nonsense in game and it's not going to be added to RHS

(0012289) TotTIM (reporter) 2022-12-20 14:55	Why, then, are the Abrams M1A1+ models equipped with the same open-type (smaller caliber) machine guns for ammunition loaders that can only shoot at the front projection? =) I will say in defense of NSVT that it would not have been installed just like that. I play on the Serious games project in Tushino, where local PVP wars take place daily with the participation of 3 servers of 200-400 players on each server, where in the game you have 1 life and a view from 1 person... We have a suppression fire modification installed, and any fire from machine guns very much suppresses any enemy, especially from a large caliber. I will say that the machine gun is very effective in confined spaces, where, for example, you can put a machine gun so that it watches the back of the tank (for example, when the tank is sitting in ambush in an alley), and the commander himself sits inside or outside at will and watches the back of the tank. There were cases when UAZ or APC followed the tank and tried to catch it by surprise. Or infantrymen who think that if the tank has passed, then you can safely run.. And you go out and work on them. (Even if the commander dies, the shooter can work by himself, without the help of the commander). In emergency situations, when the tank has no support and there are clearly only enemies around, and you are in the forest, a machine gun is the only thing that can protect you from an RPG in the back... As we know, 1 hit from an RPG in 50% of cases almost completely incapacitates the tank. Keep in mind that in a game that lasts 2-3 hours, there are only 2-6 tanks. And the loss of one tank can greatly affect the outcome of the battle. I will tell you about my personal experience when I first suppressed with fire and then killed an RPG soldier who was shooting at us from the side.(the armor saved us) All this happened on the move, the tank was traveling at an average speed through the forest without stopping, according to information, there were a lot of enemies around us (we were flanking). I was sitting in the commander's tower and watching the rear, when I heard a pop from the side and saw where the smoke was coming from, I realized that an RPG-7 fighter was sitting there in the fir trees, and I sat on an open-type machine gun and opened fire on a tree, and killed him so that he didn't have time to make a second one a shot from rpg7...Why did I do it? Because the tank tower turns for a long time, and the tank driver after the impact only pressed the gas to leave from there. There was no time to explain which azimuth to turn and which tree to shoot at. Yes, the commander can lose his life... But a broken tank engine completely incapacitates the tank, and it will take many hours to repair it. And also, when the main gun of the tank is broken, and an enemy armored personnel carrier, or BMP, or UAZ with SPG9 drives up to you, then nothing but NSVT will save it as the only chance .... Yes, this machine gun does little in many situations... but this is a special emergency situation or, one might say, a backup option. No matter how you turn it, this machine gun doesn't make it useless. There were cases when the tank ran out of ammunition or the main gun was broken, and the machine gun of its commander was used to cover the passage to an important place. NSVT shot down enemy "vartalets" many times, which were flying at low-level flight. (As we see now in the situation in Ukraine, all the turntables and planes are flying low, because there are enemy air defenses everywhere) In Arma 3, many buildings do not add up, and NSVT stitches buildings well. Do not put a machine gun on tanks, because you just thought so and refer to some comments (Western media) about weapons, it is not logical. In a real war, everything works differently here. And any of the more large-caliber weapons is a significant backup option.

(0012290) reyhard (administrator) 2022-12-21 08:13	https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/106017025779859456/963124726325207151/1-1.jpg [^] just take a look how usage of those MGs looks like. You can read on otvaga2004 forums how shitty this is to use during training, not to mention combat situation. Before doing some claims about some western bias, you should really do some research before - you didn't even bothered to verify that tanks which you reported should even have remote MG, so what you say from that point, I take with huge grain of salt. Beside that, making that in Arma is waste of time considering how unpractical it would considering Arma technical restrictions. It will simply not happen in Arma 3 unless someone else will do it. There are more important things to do which require manpower in first place

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2022-12-19 13:29	TotTIM	New Issue
2022-12-19 13:49	reyhard	Note Added: 0012280
2022-12-19 13:49	reyhard	Assigned To	=> reyhard
2022-12-19 13:49	reyhard	Status	new => feedback
2022-12-19 13:51	reyhard	Note Edited: 0012280	View Revisions
2022-12-19 22:47	TotTIM	Note Added: 0012281
2022-12-19 22:47	TotTIM	Status	feedback => new
2022-12-19 22:50	TotTIM	Note Edited: 0012281	View Revisions
2022-12-20 08:37	reyhard	Note Added: 0012282
2022-12-20 08:37	reyhard	Status	new => closed
2022-12-20 08:37	reyhard	Resolution	open => no change required
2022-12-20 11:48	TotTIM	Note Added: 0012283
2022-12-20 12:08	TotTIM	Note Added: 0012284
2022-12-20 12:30	TotTIM	Note Added: 0012285
2022-12-20 12:42	TotTIM	Note Added: 0012286
2022-12-20 12:47	TotTIM	Note Added: 0012287
2022-12-20 13:44	reyhard	Note Added: 0012288
2022-12-20 14:55	TotTIM	Note Added: 0012289
2022-12-21 08:13	reyhard	Note Added: 0012290

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