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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0006568AFRF[All Projects] Generalpublic2021-12-05 22:272021-12-09 09:06
ReporterJs2t 
Assigned Toreyhard 
PrioritynoneSeveritytweakReproducibilityalways
StatusclosedResolutionno change required 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0006568: Shouldnt the Abrams Hull ( latest modell in mod ) be penetrated by most russian APFSD for example 3bm46 ? + Kornet
Descriptioni did do some testing placing a abrams at little less then a KM and engaged its Hull fontally with 3bm46. at this range the hull should be able to be penetrated but it eats shell after shell with no issiue what so ever. while taking bouth armor and penetration estimates by simple RHA penetration is wrong since different armor arrays and different projectiles behave differently when impacted together ( even though then it should be able to pen ). i could of course be wrong but i tested it sub 1 km in wich the energy of the projectile is even higher + the hull armor to my knowledge of the abrams was barely uparmored troughout its history
 https://thesovietarmourblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/t-72-soviet-progeny.html#ap [^]

the part about the 3bm42 mango was interesting and shows what i mean by the RHA estimates worth comparing to Vant.

The same goes for the Kornet. firing two kornets at the hull seem to not take out the tank wich should in theory ( talking again only estimates ) punch trough the hull.
Steps To Reproduce-
Additional Information-
TagsNo tags attached.
Is it a wish/request?No
RHS versionStable
Arma 3 version2.04
Did you used any other mod when the error occurred?No
Which mods?
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-  Notes
(0011981)
Damian (reporter)
2021-12-06 17:03

No, it should not, because hull was improved. Do not use War Thunder or similar games as source, their armor model is BS.

I was digging through the archives and found publications and documents confirming that hull was improved.

Ballistic Research Laboratory "Ballisticians in War and Peace volume 3" states that M1A2 (model 1992/93) had front hull protection increased by 35% vs KE and by 25% vs CE compared to M1A1 (model 1985).

The same publication also states that M1IP (1984) and M1A1 (1985) received improved armor vs KE threats compared to basic M1.

I made some calculations. If M1IP and M1A1 front hull armor was increased from 400mm vs KE to at least 450mm vs KE, then basic M1A2 front hull would be 607.5mm vs KE.

But this can be even greater value, for example if hull front of M1A1 was 500mm vs KE, then basic M1A2 would be 675mm vs KE.

Front hull armor improvement is confirmed by The US Army Laboratories at Watertown publication "CONTRIBUTIONS TOSCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY : A HISTORY" where it is said that Watertown with BRL developed tandem ceramic armor that provided 33% increase in protection vs KE. This corelates to "Ballisticians in War and Peace vol.3".

And this is just late 1980's to early 1990's technology. In mod we have M1A1AIM, M1A1FEP, M1A2SEPv1 and M1A2SEPv2, all have improved armor. Only M1A1HC would be equivalent to basic M1A2 in terms of armor protection.

I have plenty of photos of various M1A1 and M1A2 subvariants prototypes with weight simulators on the turret and hull indicating that also front hull armor was improved.

So again, war thunder or other "eastern" "sources" are bs, Abrams front hull armor WAS improved.

https://i.imgur.com/jzdHr8q.jpg [^]
https://i.imgur.com/hWXtbHR.jpg [^]
https://i.imgur.com/cF66Ahw.png [^]

Photos:

https://i.imgur.com/hcue5Hv.jpg [^]
M1A1 prototype with weight simulator indicating front hull armor improvement.

https://i.imgur.com/HsTZiJu.jpg [^]
M1A2 prototype, weight simulator plate welded to the hull front is visible, confirming hull front was improved.

https://i.imgur.com/WjesGJq.jpg [^]
M1A2SEPv1, again weight simulating plates, also on the hull front, showing improved armor.

https://i.imgur.com/l7mbQUv.jpg [^]
M1A2SEPv2, again, weight simulator on the hull front.

https://i.imgur.com/R6JlGoo.jpg [^]
Another M1A2SEPv2 prototype, again weight simulating plate visible on the hull front.

https://i.imgur.com/Ls9873s.jpg [^]
M1A2SEPv3, again, weight simulating plates, this time improvement is massive. Also confirmed by documents : https://i.imgur.com/HrjtYB3.jpg [^]

https://i.imgur.com/lAESgiU.jpg [^]
And here I have a photo of the hull front being opened (external steel plate is cut off) to replace old armor package for the newer, improved one.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2021-12-05 22:27 Js2t New Issue
2021-12-06 17:03 Damian Note Added: 0011981
2021-12-09 09:06 reyhard Status new => closed
2021-12-09 09:06 reyhard Assigned To => reyhard
2021-12-09 09:06 reyhard Resolution open => no change required


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