0000549: Some problems with helicopters

Notes
(0001232) MistyRonin (administrator) 2015-04-23 02:42	1. We are all about realism not balance. 2. No. Maybe. Probably. 3. Yes. 4. A magnetic compass should be in the cockpit. 5. Not sure what you mean, would you mind extending it please.

(0001238) Griggs (reporter) 2015-04-23 10:08 edited on: 2015-04-23 14:49	1. Ok but you sure that Army or Marines now use only AGM-114L? 2. It's little bit strange that BLUEFOR main atack choppers use only last modifications of their AT air-to-surface missiles, and OPFOR ones use old, Soviet era missiles. (Ka-52 is not main attack chopper yet) 3. http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en_US/Military/BellAH-1Z/1291148375494.html#/?tab=features-tab [^] there is NO radar on AH-1Z and if it have no radar it can't launch AGM-114L as well... Here is modified AH-1Z with APG-78 http://eaglet.skr.jp/MILITARY/PICTURE/AH-1CRS.jpg [^] , but I have no information about using it in action 5. I will record video, and add here link later. Also gunner can take controls in Mi-24 and Ka-52 in real life

(0001240) Damian (reporter) 2015-04-23 14:46	1. US Army currently uses only AH-64D and AH-64E (in the end they will use only AH-64E - new builds and modernized AH-64D) and as these ones uses Longbow radar, they mostly will use AGM-114L. USMC is a bit different story, they will mostly use AGM-114K as AH-1Z do not have Longbow radar. 2. How dyou you know 9M120 have really better performance? Especially armor penetration wise? Knowing how ATGM and RPG manufacturers cheat during tests using soft steel instead of armor steel, I have my doubts about capabilities advertised by it's manufacturer. 3. No AH-1Z do not have radar, however such radar is/was tested and might be there in future. We need to change it's missile loadout. 5. Do not use AGM, it's latest version is not working well with RHS and ArmA3 1.42. --------------------------------------------------------------- 1. US Army and USMC uses also older variants, of AGM-114, we will change this, give us time, we can't do everything. USMC will not use AGM-114L tough. 2. Because USA is rich and can afford modernization of their armed forces by purchasing huge numbers of new equipment even with budget cuts, Russia is poor and can't afford such actions even with budget increasing. This is difference of scale in real world, deal with it.

(0001241) Griggs (reporter) 2015-04-23 15:05 edited on: 2015-04-23 15:10	2. Maybe test cheating got place to be but I'm sure that people could improve characteristics of ATGMs from 1976 to 1996. We got some armor penetration values and speed values for missiles in mod right now, how do you know that they are not wrong? How do you even know that Hellfire got bigger armor penetration than Kokon?

(0001242) MistyRonin (administrator) 2015-04-23 15:29 edited on: 2015-04-23 15:31	Damian and Griggs. I'm afraid you are wrong, the AH-1Z can mount a customized version of the Longbow radar mounted on wingtip station. It has already been used in combat for the last years. Besides it uses other automatic weapon control systems. http://www.military-today.com/helicopters/ah1z_viper.htm [^] Russian Armed Forces nowadays are using quite dated armament compared to US Armed Forces. Tho well, the US also uses some WW2 stuff like the M1911 or the M2... "Also gunner can take controls in Mi-24 and Ka-52 in real life" that will be added for sure.

(0001243) Griggs (reporter) 2015-04-23 15:36	MistyRonin it can be mount, but it is not vizualized - AH-1Z still have 2 Sidewinders in armament, and you can add AH-1Z without APG-78 for USMC'2010 and with semi-active laser guidance

(0001245) Damian (reporter) 2015-04-23 16:08	"2. Maybe test cheating got place to be but I'm sure that people could improve characteristics of ATGMs from 1976 to 1996. We got some armor penetration values and speed values for missiles in mod right now, how do you know that they are not wrong? How do you even know that Hellfire got bigger armor penetration than Kokon?" Such things can be calculated for example by comparing diameter of warhead. Because shaped charge penetration depends mostly on warheads diameter. Let's compare. AGM-114 diameter is 178mm which means that warhead itself is probably around 170mm. 9M114 diameter is 130mm so warhead diameter is few mm below that. 9M120 diameter is also 130mm so situation is the same. 9K121 Vikhr is also 130mm and again same situation. In general Hellfire have larger warhead than Shturm and Ataka. On the other hand it's also slower ATGM because of it's larger size and greater weight. There is also question of materials from which shaped charge insert (from which shaped charge jet is created) is made, and explosive materials used. Russians mostly use good old copper inserts for shaped charges, their experiments with other materials in general were seen as unsuccessfull and never reached production. US on the other hand uses different materials for inserts, for example FGM-148 Javelin shaped charge insert in the warhead is made from two layers of molybdenum, this is why it can achieve such high penetration values while being only 127mm in diameter (so warhead itself is probably around 120mm in diameter). I know that for some people such facts are hard to be accepted, but fact and reality are just that.

(0001246) Floydii (reporter) 2015-04-23 16:13	I'm with Griggs on 0001243. Give us a 2010 Cobra with a realistic loadout and make the 2014 Cobra the pixy and fairy dust world of tomorrow variant.

(0001247) Griggs (reporter) 2015-04-23 16:29 edited on: 2015-04-23 17:07	Maybe you will also compare guidance system size and engine size? Anyway talking that Ataka is same as Kokon is disrespect to people who worked on it for 20 years. It's same as I will tell you that AGM-114A have same armor penetration as AGM-114F... About comparing Kokon and Hellfire - maaan that was sarcasm about antsy seat of gunner in mi-24 - https://youtu.be/nLNm1eiIsdA [^]

(0001248) Damian (reporter) 2015-04-23 18:53 edited on: 2015-04-23 19:01	"I'm with Griggs on 0001243. Give us a 2010 Cobra with a realistic loadout and make the 2014 Cobra the pixy and fairy dust world of tomorrow variant." We might think about it. "Maybe you will also compare guidance system size and engine size?" And why not. ;) "Anyway talking that Ataka is same as Kokon is disrespect to people who worked on it for 20 years." Why disrespect? There are technical limitations, and also limitations coming from requirements made by military. Besides this I didn't said Ataka have definately same penetration as Kokon, I said diameter is same, diameter limits penetration capabilities for shaped charge warheads, thus Hellfire having grater diameter will have allways grater penetration calabilities in this case, while Ataka might not be definately better than Kokon, and might even be the same in this aspect while having other advantages like newer guidance system, better engine etc. Edit: Actually I checked penetration capabilities of Kokon and Ataka and they are very similiar, tough I suspect values provided for Ataka are manipulated with the "famous" behind ERA formula, analog situation to RPG-29, it was also said to penetrate 750mm RHA after ERA and in the end Basalt company, the manufacturer admitted it's only 600-650mm. ;)) "It's same as I will tell you that AGM-114A have same armor penetration as AGM-114F..." As above. "About comparing Kokon and Hellfire - maaan that was sarcasm" No it wasn't. ;)

(0001249) MistyRonin (administrator) 2015-04-23 21:51 edited on: 2015-04-23 21:52	"I'm with Griggs on 0001243. Give us a 2010 Cobra with a realistic loadout and make the 2014 Cobra the pixy and fairy dust world of tomorrow variant." There's no pixy/fairy dust of world of tomorrow in our mod. All are realistic. We'll study new AH-1Z load-out possibilities tho. Second on the requests our answer is: No. Maybe. Probably. ( http://rhsmods.org/faq [^] ) I'll ask you to please open a new task for each request.

(0001347) Griggs (reporter) 2015-05-06 19:25	"I'll ask you to please open a new task for each request." Done, please close this report

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2015-04-22 22:53	Griggs	New Issue
2015-04-23 02:42	MistyRonin	Note Added: 0001232
2015-04-23 10:08	Griggs	Note Added: 0001238
2015-04-23 14:46	Damian	Note Added: 0001240
2015-04-23 14:49	Griggs	Note Edited: 0001238	View Revisions
2015-04-23 15:05	Griggs	Note Added: 0001241
2015-04-23 15:06	Griggs	Note Edited: 0001241	View Revisions
2015-04-23 15:10	Griggs	Note Edited: 0001241	View Revisions
2015-04-23 15:29	MistyRonin	Note Added: 0001242
2015-04-23 15:30	MistyRonin	Note Edited: 0001242	View Revisions
2015-04-23 15:31	MistyRonin	Note Edited: 0001242	View Revisions
2015-04-23 15:36	Griggs	Note Added: 0001243
2015-04-23 16:08	Damian	Note Added: 0001245
2015-04-23 16:13	Floydii	Note Added: 0001246
2015-04-23 16:29	Griggs	Note Added: 0001247
2015-04-23 16:42	Griggs	Note Edited: 0001247	View Revisions
2015-04-23 17:07	Griggs	Note Edited: 0001247	View Revisions
2015-04-23 18:53	Damian	Note Added: 0001248
2015-04-23 18:55	Damian	Note Edited: 0001248	View Revisions
2015-04-23 19:01	Damian	Note Edited: 0001248	View Revisions
2015-04-23 21:51	MistyRonin	Note Added: 0001249
2015-04-23 21:52	MistyRonin	Note Edited: 0001249	View Revisions
2015-05-06 19:25	Griggs	Note Added: 0001347
2015-05-06 22:45	MistyRonin	Status	new => closed
2015-05-06 22:46	MistyRonin	Assigned To	=> MistyRonin
2015-05-06 22:46	MistyRonin	Resolution	open => no change required

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