0001639: Hitpoints on Russian tanks TURRETS

Notes
(0003311) Grach (reporter) 2015-12-25 20:12	+

(0003312) Damian (reporter) 2015-12-25 22:50 edited on: 2015-12-25 23:08	You know that actually in Russian tanks, part of ammo and propelant charges is stored in turrets? Oh wait, of course you didn't... Jesus. http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2640/89935292.jpg [^] It's same for T-90A, on many videos I seen ammo racks in the turrets. Besides this in T tanks, ammo in the hull is also very exposed, which means that after hit anywhere, they just explode or start to burn. We seen too much of this stuff in reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm0YsjGZKKs [^] T-72B, what do we see behind the gunner? Yes! Ammo racks! Bad Tankman, it again proves you never served ona T-72 class tank, and second you have absolutely zero knowledge about this subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4B4Yd6q-zg [^] And here a T-64 class tank, also ammo racks in the turret are clearly visible. Yeah so it's a lie that since T-62 ammo was not stored inside the turret in T tanks. T tanks have their opinion as deathtraps for crews for a reason.

(0003317) Grach (reporter) 2015-12-26 07:18 edited on: 2015-12-26 07:32	Это если брать полный боекомплект. А можно только те снаряды, что в автомате заряжания, как у вас и сделано. А американский танк абрамс почему-то не взрывается, когда попадаешь ему в заднюю часть башни, где лежат снаряды. А ну да, он же "SUPERTANK" не взрывается даже тогда, когда должен.

(0003318) reyhard (administrator) 2015-12-26 08:53	"А американский танк абрамс почему-то не взрывается, когда попадаешь ему в заднюю часть башни, где лежат снаряды." it's exploding since 0.4

(0003323) Michalm1393 (viewer) 2015-12-26 12:11	Ammunition in T-72 turret...... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg [^] Now Damian, no offence but take Bad_Tankman advice and polish the abrams tanks. First in T-90 - continuation of T-72 we have 22 rounds of ammo, so there is only ammunition in autoloader - why it explodes after turret hit? Ammmo storage in T-72 (autoloader) is covered from all sides, only grenade throwed inside can detonate it, or direct hit in ammo. Often explosions are beacuse of hitting ammo outside the autoloader, beacuse it isnt armored from any angle.

(0003326) Damian (reporter) 2015-12-26 14:59 edited on: 2015-12-26 15:02	We won't change everything to please you, and make stuff unrealistic, end of discussion. And stop spamming our feedback tracker. We know better what to do than you. "Это если брать полный боекомплект. А можно только те снаряды, что в автомате заряжания, как у вас и сделано. А американский танк абрамс почему-то не взрывается, когда попадаешь ему в заднюю часть башни, где лежат снаряды. А ну да, он же "SUPERTANK" не взрывается даже тогда, когда должен." Because Abrams have isolated and vented ammo storage in both turret and hull. Before you start to complain, educate yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6A7fKcotyM [^] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay7bOG2nD6k [^] It protects the crew and tank itself from complete destruction due to ammo cook off.

(0003329) Damian (reporter) 2015-12-26 15:07 edited on: 2015-12-26 15:09	You are spamming. Besides I shown you a video from a Russian T-72B, where it's clearly visible there are ammo racks in the turret. And yes I know much more about any single vehicle than you do, that's what I am doing as my hobby, passion, and soon also for living. Besides you are lier, and I dislike liers. Besides I was inside a T-72 class tank, there are ammo racks in turret. PS. Oh and yeah, we planned to add more ammo for T tanks as a secondary ammo stored inside, and it might happen in a future. But as far as I know, it was problematic due to ArmA3 limitations.

(0003331) Damian (reporter) 2015-12-26 15:10	It's for ammunition when full ammo loadout is taken. And you want to believe me you served in the army? If I would start asking you about things only soldiers knows, you would not answer any question. Now go away.

(0003333) Damian (reporter) 2015-12-26 15:20 edited on: 2015-12-26 15:30	As I said, there are ammo racks inside the turret, these ammo racks are for the storage of rounds when tank takes full ammunition loadout, simple as that. And for a conventional conflict, each tank needs to take a full ammunition loadout, so it can stay in battle long enough. It was afterall one of the requirements, because originally Morozov and also Kartsev, were designing their tanks with ammunition only in autoloaders. It was changed because due to experiences with IS heavy tanks series, that stored only around 22 rounds, the General Staff decided such ammunition loadout is not satisfactionary. This is why the general storage of ammunition in these tanks is so cramped, heck as a gunner or commander in T-72 you literally have ammunition under your ass, and no, I do not talk about autoloader, but few rounds stored outside it, directly under you. Do I really need show all these diagrams, photographs and so on? It's really boring and tiring. http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q197/hwj_chim/t72-109_zps5a660ed4.jpg [^] Here is a diagram, from Russian sources, as we can see there are two APFSDS rounds stored in the turret behind the gunner, we can see these rounds at angle. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img37/8482/ammot90.png [^] And here is a T-90A, again there are visible rounds stored in the turret rear.

(0003334) Bad Tankman (viewer) 2015-12-26 15:23 edited on: 2015-12-26 15:24	No, you writed good - gunner is sitting on ammunition, we just never had any ammo in turret thats all. Now in mod when you hit turret whole tank is exploding. BTW you know, sabot is not exploding.

(0003335) Damian (reporter) 2015-12-26 15:25	APFSDS rounds with DU penetrators are pyrophoric, which means they cause a lot of spall and ignite air inside a vehicle, this is first thing. Second thing is that Russians have ammunition stored in the turrets of their tanks, I posted above the official, accepted by the military, per their requirements ammunition storage loadouts.

(0003336) Bad Tankman (viewer) 2015-12-26 15:27 edited on: 2015-12-26 15:28	OK, i can agree (in some things) today i didnt see anywhere T-72 with ammo in turret - even Iran is not doing that. On video i posted you, there isnt ammo there too. On most videos, images (all) i see empty racks. Its seems to be crewman choice.

(0003337) Damian (reporter) 2015-12-26 15:33	Because it's for assymetric warfare, based on Russians experiences for Chechnya, for conventional warfare, all ammo racks always must be full of ammo, because other wise tank becomes quickly combat ineffective, considering extremely low ammo capacity of autoloaders of types AZ and 6EC. During assymetric warfare you do not need to bother with mobility, with supply lines, you just return to the closes safe zone and reload autoloader. Nobody have such comfort during conventional conflict, thus you take as much ammo as possible. It's so obvious for anyone that had been in the military.

(0003338) Bad Tankman (viewer) 2015-12-26 15:36	For me not, maybe beacuse i was never in the battle, and we was shooting mainly training ammo. Everything would be fine, but again we have some problem - ammo is behind the gunner, behind commander, on the roof there is no ammo, and tank explode after hit in that places.

(0003339) Damian (reporter) 2015-12-26 15:52	You can thank this to Soviet general staff requirements, that forced engineers to completely ignore a very important aspect of tank designing... crew survivability. General staff just didn't cared about soldiers and their life. Soldiers in WarPact armies were just cannon fodder. NATO was not better, because only Americans after analysing battlefield data from various conflicts, decided to give vehicle and crew survivability absolute priority, and thus we have M1, other NATO tanks will burn or explode just like T tanks. Only recently Russians after their experiences on battlefield decided to change this, thus the T-14, a result of decades of research and development. Still this is not ready for service machine, and needs more R&D work to become such. And NATO do not sleep, in 2020 so very soon, official programs for replacement of M1 and Leopard 2 will start, and in reality R&D work is already moving forward.

(0003340) PuFu (administrator) 2015-12-26 18:18	"hitpoints are set wrong" does not suffice. 1. Please provide additional information in the original post. 2. If you want a discussion on the subject this is NOT the place for it. use BIF or exchange your emails or phone numbers.

(0003341) Bad Tankman (viewer) 2015-12-26 19:39 edited on: 2015-12-27 13:16	Updated. BTW there was enough good escription "Hitting turret should resoult turret and maingun being heavy damaged, but hull should stay intact (just like on US vehicles)(...)" And in T-90A there is no ammo in turret - there is no place for it. Behind the gunner there are FCS components, ballistic calculator ETC. http://defence.pk/threads/complete-information-analysis-on-indias-t-90-tanks.369192/ [^] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiYmSxwUV-c [^] http://militaryrussia.ru/i/284/294/BjF22.jpg [^]

(0003349) reyhard (administrator) 2015-12-27 13:16	there are no hull hitpoints on turret, tested it few times shots and it works ok.

(0003353) Bad Tankman (viewer) 2015-12-27 13:30	I tested it once again and you are right reyhard. I just want to everyone understand there is no ammo in T-90A turret, to not change this, beacuse it works as it should now :)

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2015-12-25 17:34	Bad Tankman	New Issue
2015-12-25 17:47	Bad Tankman	Description Updated	View Revisions
2015-12-25 17:47	Bad Tankman	Summary	Hitpoints on Russian tanks => Hitpoints on Russian tanks TURRETS
2015-12-25 20:12	Grach	Note Added: 0003311
2015-12-25 22:50	Damian	Note Added: 0003312
2015-12-25 23:01	Damian	Note Edited: 0003312	View Revisions
2015-12-25 23:02	Damian	Note Edited: 0003312	View Revisions
2015-12-25 23:08	Damian	Note Edited: 0003312	View Revisions
2015-12-26 07:18	Grach	Note Added: 0003317
2015-12-26 07:18	Grach	Note Edited: 0003317	View Revisions
2015-12-26 07:29	Grach	Note Edited: 0003317	View Revisions
2015-12-26 07:32	Grach	Note Edited: 0003317	View Revisions
2015-12-26 08:53	reyhard	Note Added: 0003318
2015-12-26 12:02	Bad Tankman	Note Added: 0003322
2015-12-26 12:02	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003322	View Revisions
2015-12-26 12:04	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003322	View Revisions
2015-12-26 12:06	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003322	View Revisions
2015-12-26 12:11	Michalm1393	Note Added: 0003323
2015-12-26 12:14	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003322	View Revisions
2015-12-26 12:16	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003322	View Revisions
2015-12-26 12:22	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003322	View Revisions
2015-12-26 12:25	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003322	View Revisions
2015-12-26 14:59	Damian	Note Added: 0003326
2015-12-26 15:02	Damian	Note Edited: 0003326	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:05	Bad Tankman	Note Added: 0003328
2015-12-26 15:05	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003328	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:05	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003328	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:06	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003328	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:07	Damian	Note Added: 0003329
2015-12-26 15:09	Bad Tankman	Note Added: 0003330
2015-12-26 15:09	Damian	Note Edited: 0003329	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:09	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003330	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:10	Damian	Note Added: 0003331
2015-12-26 15:10	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003330	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:11	Bad Tankman	Note Added: 0003332
2015-12-26 15:12	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003332	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:20	Damian	Note Added: 0003333
2015-12-26 15:22	Damian	Note Edited: 0003333	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:23	Bad Tankman	Note Added: 0003334
2015-12-26 15:24	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003334	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:24	Damian	Note Edited: 0003333	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:25	Damian	Note Added: 0003335
2015-12-26 15:27	Bad Tankman	Note Added: 0003336
2015-12-26 15:28	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003336	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:28	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003336	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:28	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003336	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:30	Damian	Note Edited: 0003333	View Revisions
2015-12-26 15:33	Damian	Note Added: 0003337
2015-12-26 15:36	Bad Tankman	Note Added: 0003338
2015-12-26 15:52	Damian	Note Added: 0003339
2015-12-26 18:18	PuFu	Note Added: 0003340
2015-12-26 18:18	PuFu	Status	new => closed
2015-12-26 18:18	PuFu	Assigned To	=> PuFu
2015-12-26 18:18	PuFu	Resolution	open => suspended
2015-12-26 19:34	Bad Tankman	Description Updated	View Revisions
2015-12-26 19:34	Bad Tankman	Steps to Reproduce Updated	View Revisions
2015-12-26 19:34	Bad Tankman	Additional Information Updated	View Revisions
2015-12-26 19:35	Bad Tankman	Additional Information Updated	View Revisions
2015-12-26 19:35	Bad Tankman	Additional Information Updated	View Revisions
2015-12-26 19:36	Bad Tankman	Note Deleted: 0003322
2015-12-26 19:36	Bad Tankman	Note Deleted: 0003328
2015-12-26 19:36	Bad Tankman	Note Deleted: 0003330
2015-12-26 19:36	Bad Tankman	Note Deleted: 0003332
2015-12-26 19:39	Bad Tankman	Note Added: 0003341
2015-12-27 13:10	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003341	View Revisions
2015-12-27 13:11	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003341	View Revisions
2015-12-27 13:16	reyhard	Note Added: 0003349
2015-12-27 13:16	Bad Tankman	Note Edited: 0003341	View Revisions
2015-12-27 13:30	Bad Tankman	Note Added: 0003353

Relationships