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| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update | ||||
| 0001321 | AFRF | [All Projects] General | public | 2015-10-27 07:24 | 2016-01-14 10:09 | ||||
| Reporter | Himmuguegeli | ||||||||
| Assigned To | Soul_Assassin | ||||||||
| Priority | none | Severity | tweak | Reproducibility | always | ||||
| Status | closed | Resolution | won't fix | ||||||
| Platform | OS | OS Version | |||||||
| Product Version | |||||||||
| Target Version | Fixed in Version | ||||||||
| Summary | 0001321: The AK103 & AK47 weapon damage value is incorrect. | ||||||||
| Description | First of all, I do know about what I am talking and a friend of mine who is a former Special-Forces Operator confirms this. Both weapons are too weak, especially compared to other rifles like the AK74 and M4A1. The damage of a bullet is not only defined by velocity (which is definitely higher on 5,45x39) but also by kinetic energy which gets delivered by the weight of the bullet itself. The bigger bullet tip makes the bullet slower and it loses more accuracy on bigger ranges compared to 5,45 but it packs a far more bigger punch. The average kinetic energy delivered by a 5,45x39 is around 1300 joule but the 7,62x39 delivers almost twice as much with more than 2000 joule. Of course we could argue about the different types of ammunitions, but in the end the result is the same. Soviet Russia sacrificed velocity and accuracy to achieve a much stronger and deadlier bullet. You have a much higher rate of dying when this caliber hits you compared to its smaller brother 5,45x39. There is a reason why the AK103 was taken into the production chain of Izhmash. Because some still think that a higher deadliness legitimates the loss of accuracy over it. Just have a look at the caliber and see for yourself which bullet obvioulsy packs a bigger punch: http://www.goldentigerammo.com/split_rounds_small.jpg [^] I could also talk a lot about ballistics and the impact of the rounds on the human body, but the result is the same, 7,62 will neutralize the enemy with an higher rate when being hit compared to 5,45. In Vietnam for example the US Infantry wasn´t even protected by their vests, this caliber simply punched through this in shorter ranges while their own caliber wasn´t able to punch through those vests at that time. Please correct this with the next update. And thank you for your hard work, I love the RH mods since ArmA 1. Your work is important for a lot of people in the community, that´s why I hope that this will reach you. | ||||||||
| Steps To Reproduce | Have a look in the virtual Armory. The damage values displayed there are incorrect. The M4A1 is NOT stronger than an AK47 or an AK103. It´s more accurate, but that´s already correct displayed. | ||||||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||||||
| Is it a wish/request? | No | ||||||||
| RHS version | |||||||||
| Arma 3 version | 1.52 | ||||||||
| Did you used any other mod when the error occurred? | No | ||||||||
| Which mods? | |||||||||
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(0002661) PuFu (administrator) 2015-10-27 10:07 edited on: 2015-10-27 10:11 |
we are waiting for the 7.62 round data from Spartan https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/163106-toadies-smallarms-and-animations-for-arma3/?p=2922988 [^] RH != RHS |
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(0002662) reyhard (administrator) 2015-10-27 10:50 |
also, take into consideration that arma vest are hitpoint based. I think you would agree that modern 5.45/5.56 rounds are more effective in penetrating body armors than their predecessors from previous decades. https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/160329-soldier-protection-dev-branch/page-24#entry2916523 [^] pity, they droped that fire geometry thing since it's quite clusterfucked to maintain balance between body, vehicle & vest penetration... |
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(0002680) Himmuguegeli (reporter) 2015-10-30 12:28 |
Thank you for your fast answer guys. But I see this a bit differenmt to reyhard. It definitely depends on the kind of bullet as well. A FMJ round from an AKM is more likely to penetrate a vest than a 5.56 HP. But a common Kevlar vest will not stop a 7.62 FMJ and especially not the AP version in closer ranges. The 5.56 of course has a higher penetration value to duo to the shape of the bullet. But in fact there is not that much of a difference between the damage it will deliver to armored targets. Because most vests will not protect you from the kinetic energy itself, they just prevent you from being penetrated. So even if it just hits your vest, your rips may be broken and your internal bleeding will most likely neutralize, or kill you. But it´s still hard to say, how big the difference between those bullets really is. Because I guess none of us has access to a science facility which is doing research in that field. And please don´t judge the “predecessors from previous decades”. The cold war also brought up the 7.62x51 which is a devastating bullet. This thing used in some main battle rifles all around the world and it is known to beat down a man with a single hit, even if he wears a body armor, it will punch him down. And a similar caliber is still in use inside the SVD. I just hope you give the AK-103&AKM the strength they deserve. But I basically don´t know a lot about the “hitpoint based” system of ArmA 3. I just hope you guy´s at least give it an “authentic” feeling. When rebalancing that thing. I´m sure you guys will make the best out of the situation. Have a nice day and thank you for your time. |
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(0002683) PuFu (administrator) 2015-10-31 01:45 |
1. there are certain aspects that cannot be simulated = broken ribs 2. same goes for kinetic energy delivered without penetration 3. we have information about how the projectiles behaves iRL. As reyhard already said, there is limited capability regarding simulation that can be achieved using the current hitpoint system. You can read the link that was provided by reyhard on the subject. |
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(0002948) Soul_Assassin (administrator) 2015-12-06 17:05 |
We have discussed this internally and are fine with the way things are. Main issue with high caliber of Russian 7,62 rounds is actually overpenetration. |
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(0003628) Himmuguegeli (reporter) 2016-01-14 10:07 edited on: 2016-01-14 10:09 |
Yea, since i know that arma´s damage value is simply just an "impact" value im okay with that. I fully understand that you like to handle it this way, its the best to present it in arma. Thank you for your time guys. |
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Notes |
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Issue History |
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| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
| 2015-10-27 07:24 | Himmuguegeli | New Issue | |
| 2015-10-27 10:07 | PuFu | Note Added: 0002661 | |
| 2015-10-27 10:11 | PuFu | Note Edited: 0002661 | View Revisions |
| 2015-10-27 10:50 | reyhard | Note Added: 0002662 | |
| 2015-10-30 12:28 | Himmuguegeli | Note Added: 0002680 | |
| 2015-10-31 01:45 | PuFu | Note Added: 0002683 | |
| 2015-12-06 17:05 | Soul_Assassin | Note Added: 0002948 | |
| 2015-12-06 17:05 | Soul_Assassin | Status | new => closed |
| 2015-12-06 17:05 | Soul_Assassin | Assigned To | => Soul_Assassin |
| 2015-12-06 17:05 | Soul_Assassin | Resolution | open => won't fix |
| 2016-01-14 10:07 | Himmuguegeli | Note Added: 0003628 | |
| 2016-01-14 10:09 | Himmuguegeli | Note Edited: 0003628 | View Revisions |
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Issue History |
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