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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0004865AFRF[All Projects] Generalpublic2019-03-10 21:502019-03-11 20:34
ReporterExtremist 
Assigned Toreyhard 
PrioritynoneSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
StatusresolvedResolutionfixed 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version0.4.9 
Summary0004865: RPG-7v2 inconsistent precision (and accuracy) issues
DescriptionAll RPGs that I have tested so far in vanilla and RHS are pinpoint precise except for the RPG-7V2 which is displaying very inconsistent precision issues.

Sometimes the fired rockets go to the left or right of the crosshair and/or they go shorter or farther than where they should be hitting. Besides the accuracy issue, to which one can accommodate, there is a much more important issue with precision, i.e. rockets not hitting the same spot.

Although most of the tests have been done with the PG-7VL rocket, I have tested RPG-7V2 with all the rockets that are available on the RHS KotH HC INF servers. From what I have seen, all the rockets exhibit precision issues, some seemingly more than the others. This may lead to the conclusion that the problem is in the rocket launcher RPG-7V2 itself (weapon config?), but maybe the actual rocket types are configured that way (ammo config?).

RPG-7v2 and M3 MAAWS being the two most popular rocket launchers on the OPFOR (RUS) and BLUFOR (USA) side, this also presents a balancing issue for the RHS KotH INF servers as M3 MAAWS is pinpoint precise and always hits the very same spot consistently.

In addition, M3 MAAWS with FFV751 HEAT rocket also deals more direct damage (270) compared to RPG-7v2 with PG-7VR rocket (230) or PG-7VL rocket (220). M3 MAAWS with FFV751 HEAT rocket can also hit much farther targets and flies much faster (290) than the PG-7VR rocket (110).

My point is that M3 MAAWS with FFV751 HEAT is already superior compared to RPG-7v2 with PG-7VR/PG-7VL so RPG-7V2 does not need precision issues on top of that. Therefore, I think that RPG-7V2 precision should be fixed.

I have recorded a video where I'm shooting a number of PG-7VL rockets at 200m, then at 300m, followed by PG-7VR rockets at 200m. On the video it can be seen how the rockets hit everywhere instead of the very same spot. Besides not being precise, RPG-7V2 is neither accurate.

At the end of the video you can see, as a reference, how I'm firing a number of FFV751 rockets with M3 MAAWS at 300m and all the rockets are always hitting the same spot. This shows that M3 MAAWS is perfectly precise (although not perfectly accurate).

https://youtu.be/Dt5pTKDSqmM [^]

All tests have been performed on live KotH HC INF servers (C4G and EPM mostly).
Steps To Reproduce1) mark a target spot 200m/300m away on the approx. same terrain height (level)
2) equip RPG-7V2 with PG-7VL rockets
3) aim at the target spot and shoot a rocket
4) note where the rocket is hitting
5) repeat steps 2-4
TagsNo tags attached.
Is it a wish/request?No
RHS versionStable
Arma 3 version1.88
Did you used any other mod when the error occurred?No
Which mods?
Attached Files

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-  Notes
(0009037)
reyhard (administrator)
2019-03-10 21:59

All RHS should have realistic dispersion if maaws is missing it then probably it need fixinh. Vanilla is not simulating that Btw. Are you using some mods?
(0009038)
Extremist (reporter)
2019-03-10 22:06

If other RHS rocket launchers that are currently pinpoint accurate, especially M3 MAAWS, get changed so that they get similar dispersion as RPG-7V, then I think that is even a better way of balancing it.

I'm not using any mods.
(0009039)
reyhard (administrator)
2019-03-10 22:27

have you tried any other RHS rpgs? I'm not able to reproduce pinpoint accuracy on any other RPG beside MAAWS/SMAW
(0009043)
Extremist (reporter)
2019-03-10 23:45

Besides vanilla, very recently in RHS I have tested only MAAWS and MK153 Mod 0 SMAW and they seemed to have pinpoint precision.

Other launchers that I tested before that on the USA side and not that extensively (M136, RPG-26, M72A7, etc.) were not pinpoint precise, but they all felt much more precise than RPG-7V2 iirc.
(0009044)
reyhard (administrator)
2019-03-11 09:36

I would be more careful with words next time then and avoid saying "ALL" if you are not really sure that indeed "ALL" of them have such behavior ;)

Anyway, added dispersion to MAAWS & SMAW in build 3501
(0009049)
Extremist (reporter)
2019-03-11 14:11
edited on: 2019-03-11 14:12

Thank you for fixing the unrealistically pinpoint precise launchers.

Well, I said 'All RPGs that I have tested so far', not all that exist, but I agree that I could have formulated it in a much more exact manner :). Sorry for that.

After our conversation here, I have quickly tried other USA launchers and they indeed feel _much_ more precise than RPG-7V2. By what I read in military related resources, the dispersion of RPG-7V2 feels more true to real life, unlike most USA launchers that seem to have unrealistically low dispersion. I still have to try again the launchers on the RUS and compare their dispersion to RPG-7V2.

Have you checked the dispersion of other RHS launchers compared to RPG-7V2 and can you share how you decide what dispersion value to assign to what launcher? I assume there must be some logical reasoning behind dispersion values that you set and not just random values, right?

(0009051)
da12thMonkey (administrator)
2019-03-11 18:00

We had a pretty good video of Russian troops qualifying with RPG-7s, firing at a range wreck (I think it was a MTLB or 2S1 wreck) placed at a known distance from the firing line.
So we kind of copied that setup and adjusted dispersion along the lines of how near the misses were in the video, for the stated range.

Other weapons we don't really get to see such practical demonstrations so we might wing it a bit. Published "effective range" values, which in NATO usually means the ability of a weapon to hit a target 50% of the time at the stated range when operated by a trained soldier, can give some indication.
(0009054)
Extremist (reporter)
2019-03-11 20:34

Good info, I have come across similar information in my little research after I got interested in the topic due to my report here. I think you guys modeled RPG-7V2 dispersion really well and that we all should appreciate the effort and thought put into it.

I hope that you make another pass over other RHS launchers as well (e.g. M136, RPG-26, M72A7, etc.) because some of them seemed much more precise at 200m-300m than what should be realistic (or than RPG-7V2), at least from quick testing that I did yesterday.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2019-03-10 21:50 Extremist New Issue
2019-03-10 21:59 reyhard Note Added: 0009037
2019-03-10 21:59 reyhard Assigned To => reyhard
2019-03-10 21:59 reyhard Status new => feedback
2019-03-10 22:06 Extremist Note Added: 0009038
2019-03-10 22:06 Extremist Status feedback => new
2019-03-10 22:27 reyhard Note Added: 0009039
2019-03-10 22:27 reyhard Status new => feedback
2019-03-10 23:45 Extremist Note Added: 0009043
2019-03-10 23:45 Extremist Status feedback => new
2019-03-11 09:36 reyhard Note Added: 0009044
2019-03-11 09:36 reyhard Status new => resolved
2019-03-11 09:36 reyhard Fixed in Version => 0.4.9
2019-03-11 09:36 reyhard Resolution open => fixed
2019-03-11 14:11 Extremist Note Added: 0009049
2019-03-11 14:12 Extremist Note Edited: 0009049 View Revisions
2019-03-11 18:00 da12thMonkey Note Added: 0009051
2019-03-11 20:34 Extremist Note Added: 0009054


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