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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0003573AFRF[All Projects] Generalpublic2017-10-04 13:182017-10-19 06:58
Reportertopden 
Assigned Toreyhard 
PrioritynoneSeveritymajorReproducibilityalways
StatusclosedResolutionno change required 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0003573: zsu-23-4 radar
Descriptionв обновлении 0.4.3 добавлен радар в шилку. http://joxi.ru/4Aklg1qTMRK8Jr [^]
он нечего не показывает. (no targets on radar)
TagsNo tags attached.
Is it a wish/request?No
Arma 3 version1.76
Did you used any other mod when the error occurred?No
Which mods?only all rhs
Attached Files

- Relationships

-  Notes
(0006650)
reyhard (administrator)
2017-10-04 13:30

minimal ATL is 50, can you check if it detects targets above that altitude?
(0006651)
topden (reporter)
2017-10-04 14:10
edited on: 2017-10-04 14:12

no any targets. range from 50m to 8km
http://joxi.ru/n2YXgExCjnyoOm [^]
http://joxi.ru/KAgBgnqCg97Kj2 [^]
altitud from 50 to 200m -->no targets on radar. radar not working

(0006653)
reyhard (administrator)
2017-10-04 15:52

can you check with planes? Shilka radar doesn't detect static targets
(0006661)
topden (reporter)
2017-10-04 22:22

ok. radar working if speed of air more 35km\h. if speed less 35km\h - no targets on radar. Its not realistic
(0006665)
reyhard (administrator)
2017-10-05 08:14

Could you provide some references to prove that, please?
(0006676)
topden (reporter)
2017-10-06 02:42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGthUfYCCFg&feature=youtu.be [^]
(0006677)
reyhard (administrator)
2017-10-06 07:04

I'm mean in real life
(0006706)
topden (reporter)
2017-10-07 01:50
edited on: 2017-10-07 01:53

1.In arma3 all AA radars shows the air targets regardless of its speed.
2. In reality, the radar shows the air targets regardless of its speed.
3. In CUP and other mods, radar systems show targets regardless of their speeds.
4. Only in RHS "shilka" is special. nice!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5U2SPH1_FU [^]
https://studfiles.net/preview/6224112/page:2/ [^]
http://www.pzaku.net/old/pzaku.net_old_3/shilka.htm [^]

The question was not in the "lock", but in to shows on the radar low-speed air targets (less 35 km\h)
(sry for my google-english)

(0006707)
reyhard (administrator)
2017-10-07 07:41

did you read that whole "Устройство РЛС 1РЛ33М3" ? I'm curious if they mention anything about SDC filter as in this page https://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home [^]
(0006708)
topden (reporter)
2017-10-07 10:13
edited on: 2017-10-07 10:15

http://joxi.ru/Vm64Zwoix7P08A [^]
http://joxi.ru/L21G6woh6LQwKr [^]
http://stu.scask.ru/book_saup.php?id=76 [^] page 218,219,220 etc
http://joxi.ru/xAeBg3MCYlO6Or [^]
непрерывно = without interruption
Подведем итог. Если у вас радар получает сигнал только от цели, которая движется , да еще и со скоростью больше 35км\ч, а, например зависший в небе вертолет является "объектом технологии стелс, который не отражает сигнал))))", и все это считается реализмом - то можно закрыть тему.

Summarize. If your radar receives a signal only from the target that is moving, and even at a speed greater than 35km / h, and for example the helicopter hanging in the sky is "an object of Stealth technology that does not reflect the signal))))", and all this is considered realism - then you can close the topic.

(0006712)
HarryD (reporter)
2017-10-07 14:12
edited on: 2017-10-07 14:27

The guy configured that Shilka is here.

"1.In arma3 all AA radars shows the air targets regardless of its speed."

It's a BIS decision of how they configure their radars. It's not guaranteed to be realistic.

"2. In reality, the radar shows the air targets regardless of its speed."

No, they are not. Before the invention of AESA radars, which show the resolution of ~ 0.5-1 m^2 and impulse-waiting time less than half a second, and, thus, allow to track the target speed directly by it's position changing, it was basically impossible to track any target with a speed below 50 - 200 km/h depending on the radar wavelength - the Doppler warp is undistinguishable from the noise at that speed.

"3. In CUP and other mods, radar systems show targets regardless of their speeds.
4. Only in RHS "shilka" is special. nice!"

Again, it's their decisions that may. or may not reflect the reality.

Now to the reality again. Every AA radar system has hardware or software means of filttering the targets with the speed it cannot distinguish from zero. Otherwise you won't distinguish the target from the ground statics anyway. That's the reason why you need to use modified radar software or hardware to use it on the ground attack jets for reliable target tracking.
The minimum documented tracked target speed for way more advanced AN/APG-63 radar is 45-50 km/h. The minimal target speed for 35D6 is 60-180 km/h.
I would be glad to obtain solid data on 1RL33M3 target speed, but I couldn't find it anywhere, so I had to calculate the Doppler effect and minimal tracking speed myself with checking with other systems. It's fairly easy, you can try yourself:

(2υ/λ)cosα = kFп.

Fп - частота повторений зондирующих
импульсов
Fд - допплеровская частота
k – целое число
λ – длина волны зондирующего сигнала
υ - различимая скорость цели

You'll end up with ~ 100 km/h there. 35 km/h is somehow arbitrary number based on assumption that at such speed the angle between the radar ray and rotor blades will be enough to reflect enough energy for the radar to catch the Doppler warp from the moving blades.
IRL the plane is invisible for Doppler radars at speeds below 50-150 km/h. Absolutely invisible. As well as the ones flying perpendicular to the radar complex and flying at height where radar ray cone collides with ground. Yes, it's a stealth technology. Yes, that's why there's so little point in specially shaped hulls and dissolving paints on helicopters. That's why they were used extensively in Iraq to hunt down the radar AA.

Подведем итог. Это не "считается реализмом", это и есть реализм. Консультант с этим тоже согласен.


- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2017-10-04 13:18 topden New Issue
2017-10-04 13:30 reyhard Note Added: 0006650
2017-10-04 13:30 reyhard Assigned To => reyhard
2017-10-04 13:30 reyhard Status new => feedback
2017-10-04 14:10 topden Note Added: 0006651
2017-10-04 14:10 topden Status feedback => new
2017-10-04 14:12 topden Note Edited: 0006651 View Revisions
2017-10-04 15:52 reyhard Note Added: 0006653
2017-10-04 15:52 reyhard Status new => feedback
2017-10-04 22:22 topden Note Added: 0006661
2017-10-04 22:22 topden Status feedback => new
2017-10-05 08:14 reyhard Note Added: 0006665
2017-10-05 08:14 reyhard Status new => feedback
2017-10-06 02:42 topden Note Added: 0006676
2017-10-06 02:42 topden Status feedback => new
2017-10-06 07:04 reyhard Note Added: 0006677
2017-10-06 07:04 reyhard Status new => feedback
2017-10-07 01:50 topden Note Added: 0006706
2017-10-07 01:50 topden Status feedback => new
2017-10-07 01:53 topden Note Edited: 0006706 View Revisions
2017-10-07 07:41 reyhard Note Added: 0006707
2017-10-07 07:41 reyhard Status new => feedback
2017-10-07 10:13 topden Note Added: 0006708
2017-10-07 10:13 topden Status feedback => new
2017-10-07 10:15 topden Note Edited: 0006708 View Revisions
2017-10-07 14:12 HarryD Note Added: 0006712
2017-10-07 14:27 HarryD Note Edited: 0006712 View Revisions
2017-10-07 19:08 reyhard Status new => feedback
2017-10-19 06:58 Soul_Assassin Status feedback => closed
2017-10-19 06:58 Soul_Assassin Resolution open => no change required


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