RHS Feedback - USAF
View Issue Details
IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0006008USAFGeneralpublic2020-11-08 16:502020-11-08 22:49
Reporteraht0 
Assigned Toreyhard 
PrioritynoneSeveritymajorReproducibilityalways
StatusclosedResolutionduplicate 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Is it a wish/request?No
RHS versionStable
Arma 3 version2.00
Did you used any other mod when the error occurred?No
Which mods?
Summary0006008: AH-6 "Little Bird" armed with GAU-19/A is abnormally strong against OPFOR/Russian faction's aircraft and vehicles.
DescriptionProblem 1: "Little Bird's" hull in general seems to be able to take rather illogically large amounts of damage/hits for it's small (and unarmored) frame before succumbing to it.
Demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGlZyu5PpTE [^]

Problem 2: GAU-19/A firing 12.7mm SLAP ammo is able to take out all aircraft (including jets) it hits and most of the armor in Russian faction by simple expedient of shooting through them, minimally killing the crew, often redlining/disabling components of the vehicles.

Demonstration 1 (chose BMP-2 variant available to BLUE faction for simplicity, crew getting killed in vehicle is well visible in group chat):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp5isEzeTQg [^]

Demonstration 2 (shooting up Mi-24 variant in Editor):
https://youtu.be/eE3xuNz6Plc?t=3 [^]

---
In PvP environment these 2 problems create situation, where AH-6 armed with GAU-19/A is able to dominate battlefield due it's agility, small size, overwhelming firepower, tough hull and game engine idiosyncarcities (helicopter's small "hitbox" shifts around because players are connected to remote server with delay. Effect of which is further amplified by pilot's evasive maneuvers).

It's relatively hard (compared to other helicopters) to shoot down even by lock-on launchers (sometimes it's needs 3 hits from "Igla" to kill one, generally it can take at least one "Igla" missile and fly off - while remaining nearly un-hittable as long as it's running its countermeasures suite.) It can also take quite a many hits from mobile ZSU antiair vehicle and keep flying - which is downright weird.

Suggestion 1: reduce AH-6 armor values (or up the armor values accordingly for rotary aircraft in Russian factions. Mi-24's in particular are ridicoulously vulnerable for supposedly armored gunships).

Suggestion 2: replace GAU-19/A 12.7mm SLAP ammonition in AH-6's GAU-19/A gatling gun with conventional 12.7mm ball ammo.
According to: https://old.weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/BB03%20-%20GAU-19.html [^]

GAU-19/A is normally loaded with standard 12.7mm ammo, NOT 12.7mm SLAP's which are just an additional option available.

---
Steps To ReproducePlay in multiplayer PvP server, using AH-6 "Little Bird" armed with 12.7mm GAU-19/A chaingun on one or both pylons.
Additional InformationSome player's opinions:
https://www.upload.ee/image/12491399/Screenshot_20201107-003059_Discord.jpg [^]
https://www.upload.ee/image/12490720/Screenshot_20201106-190627_Discord.jpg [^]
TagsNo tags attached.
Relationships
Attached Files
Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2020-11-08 16:50aht0New Issue
2020-11-08 16:55aht0Description Updatedbug_revision_view_page.php?rev_id=7111#r7111
2020-11-08 19:45da12thMonkeyNote Added: 0011245
2020-11-08 19:45da12thMonkeyStatusnew => closed
2020-11-08 19:45da12thMonkeyAssigned To => da12thMonkey
2020-11-08 19:45da12thMonkeyResolutionopen => suspended
2020-11-08 19:45reyhardNote Added: 0011246
2020-11-08 19:45reyhardAssigned Toda12thMonkey => reyhard
2020-11-08 19:45reyhardResolutionsuspended => duplicate
2020-11-08 19:45da12thMonkeyNote Edited: 0011245bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=11245#r7115
2020-11-08 20:15aht0Note Added: 0011248
2020-11-08 20:56reyhardNote Added: 0011249
2020-11-08 20:57reyhardNote Edited: 0011249bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=11249#r7117
2020-11-08 22:49aht0Note Added: 0011251

Notes
(0011245)
da12thMonkey   
2020-11-08 19:45   
"In PvP environment these 2 problems create situation"
Then balance should be done mission-side by restricting availability of the AH-6 or GAU-19s, or changing its ammunition in mission scripts. We're not interested in artificially balancing RHS assets for particular game modes
(0011246)
reyhard   
2020-11-08 19:45   
http://feedback.rhsmods.org/view.php?id=5998 [^]
1 issue per ticket please

2nd thing - well that's correct
(0011248)
aht0   
2020-11-08 20:15   
"1 issue per ticket please"

Ok, I shall keep it in mind in future.

"Then balance should be done mission-side by restricting availability of the AH-6 or GAU-19s, or changing its ammunition in mission scripts. We're not interested in artificially balancing RHS assets for particular game modes"

As I see it, I wasn't asking anything exceedingly unrealistic, since you seem to go after realism and ball 12.7mm is normally being used in this weapon system anyway. From plus side it would reduce a heavy bias towards US vehicles and aircraft a bit.

Ammo type for GAU-19/A in mod seems limited to only 12.7mm SLAP-T's. There seems to be nothing else selectable for it (that I could find looking at code anyway). And it seems to be ONLY weapon system in RHS even using that particular type of ammo for whatever reason.
(0011249)
reyhard   
2020-11-08 20:56   
(edited on: 2020-11-08 20:57)
All M2 are using slap ammo - it's quite standard nowadays + vannila M2 12.7 ammo is also based on slap round
(0011251)
aht0   
2020-11-08 22:49   
Thanks for the feedback.