RHS Feedback - AFRF
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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0002311AFRF[All Projects] Generalpublic2016-06-11 18:292016-08-04 14:56
ReporteromL 
Assigned Toreyhard 
PrioritynoneSeveritymajorReproducibilityalways
StatusclosedResolutionduplicate 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Is it a wish/request?Yes
RHS version
Arma 3 version1.60
Did you used any other mod when the error occurred?Yes
Which mods?Tactical Battlefield, All other RHS mods, CUP complete terrains, Kunduz, EricJ Taliban Units, TFAR, CBA_A3
Summary0002311: Some RPG-7 rockets are effective to ranges that do not make sense.
DescriptionLol if the OG-7V with a reported kill radius of 150m could hit out to 1000m irl consistently I'm throwing away my British passport and learning Russian.

Just a couple of google searches will tell you that you can't hit exactly where you want with OG-7V from 900m away (I've only seen one source get close to that out of around 15, and it's a Russian source so I really don't know what to believe - said 700m btw). Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is that it seems all rockets are effective to the same range? I would really like if these rockets had different characteristics; representative of their actual combat usage. It is kind of ruining some PvP sessions for me. I know we could just remove the warheads we deem OP but it's just simply something I can't do and would prefer if there was a fix for the solution rather than just leaving out pieces from this great mod.
Steps To ReproduceAim for a car wheel at 900m with OG-7V and know how to use the PGO-7 and its a direct hit every time.
Additional InformationHow I think (know) it should be :
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=232486692 [^]

It's hardly a wish/request because it's extremely game breaking IMHO, having used it and been the victim.
TagsNo tags attached.
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Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2016-06-11 18:29omLNew Issue
2016-06-11 21:437ftnickNote Added: 0004687
2016-06-11 21:57GribnicNote Added: 0004688
2016-06-11 21:58GribnicNote Deleted: 0004688
2016-06-11 22:00GribnicNote Added: 0004689
2016-06-11 23:44reduxNote Added: 0004695
2016-06-12 05:37omLNote Added: 0004699
2016-06-12 06:05omLNote Edited: 0004699bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=4699#r2931
2016-06-12 12:10GribnicNote Added: 0004700
2016-06-12 18:58omLNote Added: 0004701
2016-06-12 18:58omLNote Edited: 0004701bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=4701#r2933
2016-06-12 18:58omLNote Edited: 0004701bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=4701#r2934
2016-06-14 02:337ftnickNote Added: 0004719
2016-06-14 02:357ftnickNote Edited: 0004719bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=4719#r2942
2016-06-14 02:377ftnickNote Edited: 0004719bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=4719#r2943
2016-06-14 13:357ftnickNote Added: 0004721
2016-06-14 14:34omLNote Added: 0004722
2016-06-14 15:067ftnickNote Added: 0004723
2016-06-14 15:087ftnickNote Edited: 0004723bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=4723#r2947
2016-06-14 18:30omLNote Added: 0004724
2016-06-14 18:507ftnickNote Added: 0004725
2016-06-15 03:34omLNote Added: 0004726
2016-06-18 23:09GrachNote Edited: 0004726bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=4726#r2975
2016-06-19 20:31hubert_suhnerNote Added: 0004759
2016-07-05 01:29SnapNote Added: 0004844
2016-07-05 11:36hubert_suhnerNote Edited: 0004759bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=4759#r3026
2016-07-05 20:14hubert_suhnerNote Edited: 0004759bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=4759#r3027
2016-07-06 00:27reduxNote Added: 0004848
2016-07-22 00:53IzelorNote Added: 0004976
2016-07-24 16:50omLNote Added: 0005011
2016-07-24 23:47reduxNote Added: 0005015
2016-07-24 23:50reduxNote Edited: 0005015bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=5015#r3130
2016-07-24 23:50reduxNote Edited: 0005015bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=5015#r3131
2016-07-24 23:55reduxNote Edited: 0005015bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=5015#r3132
2016-07-25 01:17SnapNote Added: 0005016
2016-07-25 02:34SnapNote Added: 0005017
2016-07-25 02:38SnapNote Edited: 0005016bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=5016#r3134
2016-07-25 18:24omLNote Added: 0005027
2016-07-26 00:15SnapNote Added: 0005030
2016-07-26 00:20SnapNote Edited: 0005030bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=5030#r3139
2016-07-26 08:07reduxNote Added: 0005032
2016-08-04 14:56reyhardStatusnew => closed
2016-08-04 14:56reyhardAssigned To => reyhard
2016-08-04 14:56reyhardResolutionopen => duplicate

Notes
(0004687)
7ftnick   
2016-06-11 21:43   
There was a discussion about this. There is a device that you attach on the RPG and on this device you attach the scope.

http://tillgun.ucoz.ru/publ/1/granatomety/rpg_7/7-1-0-59 [^]

If you follow the link and scroll down, the bottom image is this device.
It is an adapter that enables angling of the scope enabling sort of zeroing.
It is said that only this device enables the OG-7V to precisely shoot at 700m range.
Probably they will make it one day.
(0004689)
Gribnic   
2016-06-11 22:00   
К слову. Радиус поражения в 150 метров не означает 100% поражения осколками на этой дистанции
(0004695)
redux   
2016-06-11 23:44   
Я уже создавал тикет тольк на русском http://feedback.rhsmods.org/view.php?id=1194 [^]
(0004699)
omL   
2016-06-12 05:37   
(edited on: 2016-06-12 06:05)
So 7ftnick you're saying this device exists and is used on RPG7s owning to the Russian armed forces? Thanks didn't know about this tbh so thanks for the link. Also I noticed you said that in the other post that "sabot rounds and AK fire flat trajectories without jet engine so why can't the OG-7U?" Well you have to think about muzzle velocity. The OG-7U is flying a lot slower than an AK round or SABOT round, is a lot less streamlined (big cross-section size and 2kg in weight).

Yeah, Gribnic when I say kill radius I mean blast radius, sorry. Also I have also learnt that the kill-zone (potential to kill or heavily wound) is 12mx10m = 120m²
Pretty much all sources apart from one fail to mention it is "m²"

redux the guys from RHS are ignoring this ? Your thread is still "new".


Worst thing is I don't even think most soldiers of the Russian Armed Forces have even touched the OG-7V. Not seen a single picture of a Russian soldier with the frag warhead even in his carrier, much less his RPG-7.
(0004700)
Gribnic   
2016-06-12 12:10   
omL, >>Worst thing is I don't even think most soldiers of the Russian Armed Forces have even touched the OG-7V. Not seen a single picture of a Russian soldier with the frag warhead even in his carrier, much less his RPG-7.<<<


В армии РФ многое снаряжение не входит стандартное снаряжение и обучение его использованию не входит в программу обучения, но это не значит что такого снаряжению нет или что оно не будет применено во время войны. Например такая ситуация с дымовыми гранатами, но вы же не думаете что в армии РФ нет дымовых гранат)
(0004701)
omL   
2016-06-12 18:58   
@Gribnic
You are correct, I remember looking for Russian smoke grenade and flashbang and not finding much.

However I still think the OG-7V is way more powerful than it should be in-game. It's only a 210g explosive. For reference, the M203 round, M381, has a blast radius (130m) and explosive weight similar to the OG-7V (actually higher. OG-7V is 210g and M381 are 480g)
(0004719)
7ftnick   
2016-06-14 02:33   
(edited on: 2016-06-14 02:37)
It is a fragmentation grenade. The rippled body of this grenade explodes into many small bits that act like shrapnel and the distance these bits will fly from the explosion center is 150m each side, these bits are what is suppose to kill a target, not the explosion. The number of these bits are limited in real life. But in current iteration it is just a 150m killzone, no actual simulation of shrapnel that might hit a helmet or a vest which are shrapnel and frag resistant. Same with vanilla claymore it so seems.
(0004721)
7ftnick   
2016-06-14 13:35   
Special for you. I found a manual page with range marks for the OG-7V.
You might not understand what it sais but basically in the picture there is a scope. on the left are distances to target and lines drawn from them to the corresponding grids. (Note these are only for the OG-7V).
There is also a comment below that to hit a target closer then 100m the cross on top should be used for targeting.

https://my.mail.ru/mail/photoshooter/photo/9858/10922.html [^]
(0004722)
omL   
2016-06-14 14:34   
So doesn't this confirm that the scope only assists aiming up to 340m ?
(0004723)
7ftnick   
2016-06-14 15:06   
(edited on: 2016-06-14 15:08)
Without the device I linked earlier its 340m, with the device - 700.
The grenade itself can fly for 700, but because the ark of flight the target is below the scopes visibility. the device allows to tilt the scope and then you can aim at the target 700m away.
(0004724)
omL   
2016-06-14 18:30   
Ah, ok. I think BI have an issue with simulation of multiple projectiles eg. shotgun
So is that the issue with the damage?
(0004725)
7ftnick   
2016-06-14 18:50   
It is possible to simulate. But maybe it will be a lagfest so they choose not to.
(0004726)
omL   
2016-06-15 03:34   
(edited on: 2016-06-18 23:09)
So couldn't the RHS team just reduce the effect on players who are armoured?

_____________________________________________________

У бойца в бронежилете не прикрыты:ноги, руки, шея, нижняя часть туловища.
(0004759)
hubert_suhner   
2016-06-19 20:31   
(edited on: 2016-07-05 20:14)
Reduce OG damage? Its enough for now. Dont forget what it was made for.

I would answear in this comment, but RHS team have enough for my arguments, sorry, do what you want.


ALSO ON T-90A COMMANDER CAN BE KILLED FROM OUTSIDE - HE IS VISIBLE THROUGH THE TURRET.
(0004844)
Snap   
2016-07-05 01:29   
omL
[quote]
However I still think the OG-7V is way more powerful than it should be in-game. It's only a 210g explosive. For reference, the M203 round, M381, has a blast radius (130m) and explosive weight similar to the OG-7V (actually higher. OG-7V is 210g and M381 are 480g)
[/quote]
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/grenade/40mm_ammo.html [^]
40mm m381 weight 0.23 kg
og-7v weight 2 kg. 210*1.6=336g TNT equivalent. 1,79kg fragments weight.
it is necessary to compare the kinetic energy of the fragments.
(0004848)
redux   
2016-07-06 00:27   
https://youtu.be/UHCozNrO9Vo?t=38s [^]
(0004976)
Izelor   
2016-07-22 00:53   
Не знаю актуально ли, но у меня два замечания:
1) Площадь(не радиус) поражения ОГ-7В - 150 квадратных метров.
2) Фрагментов шрапнели от ОГ-7В получается относительно много, она острая и мелкая. Но большие куски, бывает, летают дальше. Одну я выковыривал из стенки селикатного кирпича где-то в 150 метрах от места разрыва, вошла плотно, сантиметров на 5-7.
(0005011)
omL   
2016-07-24 16:50   
1. The shrapnel ignores armour lol. Most sources state you can only score kills vs armoured infantry if the warheard lands within 7m.

2. The OG-7V is too accurate in game. Many sources state the rockets that are fired by the RPG-7 are extremely sensitive to crosswinds for example. Why can't that affect the path of the projectile ?
(0005015)
redux   
2016-07-24 23:47   
(edited on: 2016-07-24 23:55)
1. After the explosion at 7 meters will remain only body with armor lol.

2. Because everyone knows pre-emption to the wind, which is absent in Arma 3.
(0005016)
Snap   
2016-07-25 01:17   
(edited on: 2016-07-25 02:38)
2. og-7v not has engine, because of this it more accurate when pg-7vl.
http://www.nastavleniya.ru/RPG/rpg12.htm [^]
see table of 127 paragraph. wind correction is simple work. engine work ~0.5 second and 100 meters, when trajectory corrected by wind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4BVE3gSg0c [^]
teacher talk about 300-400 meters must be shooting from ironsign (no wind correction), farther - optic.
(0005017)
Snap   
2016-07-25 02:34   
now pg-7vl has not correct speed. after 0.6s and 80 meters must be not less then 200 meters in second. not trusted information about maxspeed, but start speed is 112 m/s, and engine work 0.6 s.
(0005027)
omL   
2016-07-25 18:24   
2. The wind does not act on the "engine" it acts on the fins which are the same for all warheads.
(0005030)
Snap   
2016-07-26 00:15   
(edited on: 2016-07-26 00:20)
2. As I primitive understanding this physic process:
while engine work - crosswind deviation.
while its fly like arrow - deviation of the wind.
no engine - fly like arrow. but then heavier the arrow is, the less it deviate by the wind.

https://youtu.be/TeQx4NlRiKM?t=1m9s [^]
if you can understand what there say, your hear about crosswind deviation work only when work engine. og-7v without engine.

my conclusion - first 0.6 second PG and TBG get crosswind deviation. if the wind is so strong that it can turn warhead that flies 120 meters per second speed, than engine can change the direction of flight. after it - very little deviation of the wind. all like in rpg-7 manual 127 paragraph table 2.
(0005032)
redux   
2016-07-26 08:07   
Об ог-7в вот что пишут:
<<В России 40-мм выстрел ОГ-7В с калиберной осколочной гранатой ОГ-7 с ударным взрывателем был разработан ФГУП «Базальт» (конструктор Михаил Коноваев, пат. № 2410631 РФ, шифр гранаты «Осколок», у военных получил название «Карандаш»). При всей своевременности разработки этой гранаты она имела ряд недостатков. У нее небольшая дальность стрельбы (из гранатомета РПГ-7В – 280 м), объясняемая отсутствием в выстреле реактивного двигателя; малый меридиональный угол разлета осколков и значительное рассогласование эллипса рассеивания и координатного закона поражения. Отсутствие заказа на разработку полноценной надкалиберной осколочной гранаты было труднообъяснимой ошибкой Министерства обороны.>>
Источник: http://vpk.name/news/82752_uboinoe_oruzhie_pogranichnikov.html [^]