RHS Feedback - USAF
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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0005875USAFGeneralpublic2020-09-16 22:472020-09-17 19:48
Reporterdedmen 
Assigned To 
PrioritynoneSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
StatusnewResolutionopen 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Is it a wish/request?No
RHS versionStable
Arma 3 version1.98
Did you used any other mod when the error occurred?No
Which mods?CBA, RHS AFRF, USAF, SAF, GREF
Summary0005875: MELB ATAS Lock on problems/not working
DescriptionVideo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbgwukH7ESY [^]

The MELB with ATAS added onto pylons has really weird, unexpected, clearly broken lock-on behaviour.
Also reproduced with only latest CBA + RHSAFRF/GREF/SAF/USAF.

When the pylon weapons are added to the gunner slot, and you enable manual fire to get access to the ATAS, you cannot lock on at all, the laser trick showed in the video also doesn't work, the ATAS won't lock.
I first thought it was me but when I asked in my Unit I got told that they already knew the ATAS was broken and unusable.

I would expect that Laser shouldn't be required here at all.
I'm running Arma Internal build, but am not aware of any changes in this Area.


I also tried the ATAS on a UH-60M ESSS vs a Vanilla Taru helicopter, locking there works absolutely flawlessly.

UH-60 vs Mi-8T, success.
AH-6M vs Mi-8T, fail (behaviour above, only laser, sporadic function).
AH-64D vs Mi-8T, semi success, the target-lock works, but you need to be less than a hundred meters away from target before it actually locks on and you can shoot, you have to practically have to look the pilot in the eye, which makes no sense for a apache. The other helicopters had good lock-on range, Apache seems broke in that regard.
Steps To ReproduceSee video.
VR Terrain
Place russian unarmed helicopter as target (flying)
Place Little Bird Armed, and edit its pylons to have ATAS rockets.
Try to switch to the ATAS rockets and try to lock the target helicopter.
Additional Information
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Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2020-09-16 22:47dedmenNew Issue
2020-09-17 00:18fire-39_1Note Added: 0011024
2020-09-17 01:02dedmenNote Added: 0011025
2020-09-17 08:44reyhardSeveritymajor => minor
2020-09-17 13:05da12thMonkeyNote Added: 0011028
2020-09-17 13:05da12thMonkeyNote Edited: 0011028bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=11028#r7003
2020-09-17 15:22da12thMonkeyNote Edited: 0011028bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=11028#r7004
2020-09-17 15:26da12thMonkeyNote Edited: 0011028bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=11028#r7005
2020-09-17 15:42da12thMonkeyNote Edited: 0011028bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=11028#r7006
2020-09-17 19:48fire-39_1Note Added: 0011029

Notes
(0011024)
fire-39_1   
2020-09-17 00:18   
May also be related to another issue I found where the locking capability seems to be affected by height over terrain where missile will acquire but not lock over ~170m MSL (see video).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztcKVJZ_pEo [^]

This was done with the previous version of RHS I think however issue remains.
(0011025)
dedmen   
2020-09-17 01:02   
All my tests were done in VR terrain at about 80m height above ground
(0011028)
da12thMonkey   
2020-09-17 13:05   
(edited on: 2020-09-17 15:42)
Have investigated it in the past and wasn't able to resolve it yet.
IIRC the vanilla WY-55 Hellcat has the same issue with vanilla IR missiles like ASRAAM.

I think it's possibly that on such helicopters the gunner's IR turret sensor overrides the direction of the missile's own IR sensor, since this is a common trait of the three helicopters in question.

So, possible an Arma 3 bug

Ed:- After playing around with the AH-6 a bit more: The ATAS can lock when using pilot's Manual Fire override of the gunner's weapons if there is a gunner in the vehicle - the missile will steer towards targets. But for some reason it just never shows the square/diamond bracket for marked/locked targets unless the pilot owns the pylon, so you don't really know if it's locked until you fire the missile
Without a gunner, it doesn't appear that manual override works at all

As for difficulty locking on with e.g. the AH-64. All our MANPAD-based AA missiles are set up to have a hard time distinguishing targets against terrain clutter so are not great at finding low-flying enemies.
The upshot of this is that to get a lock at more than 1km distance you need to be flying at a lower altitude than your target so that the missile can pick it out against the sky rather than the terrain
(0011029)
fire-39_1   
2020-09-17 19:48   
I did some further testing with this and it seems to not be a MSL thing but relation to each heli, in my testing with the ah-64 today if the Apache was level to or above the target heli then lock on was not possible firing aircraft has to be under target aircraft altitude, with this in mind I successfully fired and hit target with the ATAS out to 5km.