RHS Feedback - USAF
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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0004440USAF[All Projects] Generalpublic2018-08-20 12:112019-03-09 23:05
Reporter7ftnick 
Assigned Toreyhard 
PrioritynoneSeverityminorReproducibilityhave not tried
StatusclosedResolutionsuspended 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Is it a wish/request?No
RHS version
Arma 3 version1.84
Did you used any other mod when the error occurred?No
Which mods?
Summary0004440: Abrams have impenetrable driver capsule and frontal turret (and turret plates)
DescriptionOn the screenshot there is one tank, but I tried with others with similar results.
The entry points are marked with red.
Green lines show approximate border after which (towards the rear) penetration works as normal.
Missile used for tests - Kh29ML.

In all cases maximum damage a tank would get would be damaged tracks.
Steps To Reproduce
Additional Information
TagsNo tags attached.
Relationships
Attached Filesjpg abr1.jpg (153,343) 2018-08-20 12:11
https://feedback.rhsmods.org/file_download.php?file_id=1835&type=bug
jpg
Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2018-08-20 12:117ftnickNew Issue
2018-08-20 12:117ftnickFile Added: abr1.jpg
2018-08-20 12:117ftnickNote Added: 0008249
2018-08-20 12:20reyhardNote Added: 0008251
2018-08-20 12:20reyhardAssigned To => reyhard
2018-08-20 12:20reyhardStatusnew => feedback
2018-08-20 12:397ftnickNote Added: 0008252
2018-08-20 12:397ftnickStatusfeedback => new
2018-08-20 12:46reyhardNote Added: 0008253
2018-08-20 12:46reyhardStatusnew => feedback
2018-08-20 12:517ftnickNote Added: 0008254
2018-08-20 12:517ftnickStatusfeedback => new
2018-08-20 12:527ftnickNote Edited: 0008254bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=8254#r5463
2018-08-20 13:077ftnickNote Added: 0008255
2018-08-20 13:087ftnickNote Edited: 0008255bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=8255#r5467
2018-08-20 13:17reyhardNote Added: 0008256
2018-08-20 13:17reyhardStatusnew => feedback
2018-08-21 10:207ftnickNote Added: 0008276
2018-08-21 10:207ftnickStatusfeedback => new
2018-08-21 10:26reyhardNote Added: 0008277
2018-08-21 10:27reyhardNote Edited: 0008277bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=8277#r5482
2018-08-21 10:28reyhardStatusnew => feedback
2018-08-21 19:19DamianNote Added: 0008307
2018-08-21 19:22DamianNote Edited: 0008307bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=8307#r5493
2018-08-21 19:29DamianNote Edited: 0008307bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=8307#r5494
2018-08-22 01:327ftnickNote Added: 0008309
2018-08-22 01:327ftnickStatusfeedback => new
2018-08-22 22:16DamianNote Added: 0008328
2018-08-23 06:497ftnickNote Added: 0008330
2019-03-09 23:05reyhardStatusnew => closed
2019-03-09 23:05reyhardResolutionopen => suspended

Notes
(0008249)
7ftnick   
2018-08-20 12:11   
Posted 3 times for some reason
(0008251)
reyhard   
2018-08-20 12:20   
http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/images/1/14/M1A2_SEP_frontLOS.jpg [^]
RHS M1A1SA & M1A2 doesn't have that CE weak spot on driver spot since that's not correctly modeled in SB but it should give you sense of much protection against HEATs that tank has. Furthermore, Kh29, unlike maverick, doesn't have HEAT charge and is using blunt explosive force.

Let me know if you still find something weird in current behavior
(0008252)
7ftnick   
2018-08-20 12:39   
It is the same with Mavericks, RPG, and all types of tank rounds. Damage only to the tracks.
(0008253)
reyhard   
2018-08-20 12:46   
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-RHA-penetration-of-an-AGM-65-Maverick-missile [^]
turret front sides are pretty much immune to almost everything. Upper center plate is for example penetrable with BM48 or Kornet if hit from correct angle.

I've tried also gun mantlet which you marked and it was penetrated with Kornet & BM42M
(0008254)
7ftnick   
2018-08-20 12:51   
(edited on: 2018-08-20 12:52)
And the side ? Driver capsule acts this way on the side before the green line approx. And right after 1 rpg round blows the whole tank up.

The first modification without era.
(0008255)
7ftnick   
2018-08-20 13:07   
(edited on: 2018-08-20 13:08)
If you look from the side, starting from the driver, there is a plate that covers the tracks. There is the first one bigger one, and then a smaller one behind it.
A bit left of the center of this second plate there is an invisible line. If you hit to the right of that line, nothing will happen, no damage at all.
If you hit a bit to the left - tank blows up.
(Front of the tank should be on your right)
(0008256)
reyhard   
2018-08-20 13:17   
On the driver sides there are 2 large diesel fuel tanks which acts as a additional protection. It's rather hard to ignite that fuel tank but damaging it will result in fuel leak. Furthermore, there are small components which are responsible for steering so it's also possible to sort of "disable" tracks, without hitting actually tracks. It could be somehow improved indeed that this extra protection is disabled when there is no fuel but I would consider it as some nice to have thing in future.

Right behind that green line there is also hull ammo storage which is sort of weak spot so any hit nearby have higher chance to cause catastrophic damage.

There are also missing some internal components for FCS & optics so any hit that penetrates hull/turret side should be able to disable plenty of components inside but it's also something that might be introduced later.
(0008276)
7ftnick   
2018-08-21 10:20   
The most powerful Russian SABOT in RHS is 3BM48. Its KE penetration is 300mm.
So according to the picture above I should be able to get the whole red area on the side.
THe picture below is what I actually get in arma, blue areas are not penetrable although they should be.

https://imgur.com/a/wcL2rIt [^]

Is this correct or no ?
(0008277)
reyhard   
2018-08-21 10:26   
(edited on: 2018-08-21 10:27)
Where did you get 300mm penetration? 3BM48 have around ~681mm at 2km. At point blank it's above 700mm (don't remember exact value). On that SB graph slopes are included.

Are you sure that tank is not penetrated? It might just not cause any critical damage in those zones since there is mostly equipment or already mentioned before diesel fuel.
(0008307)
Damian   
2018-08-21 19:19   
(edited on: 2018-08-21 19:29)
Everything is ok. M1A1SA/M1A1FEP and M1A2SEPv1 uses 3rd generation Heavy Armor Package, it means that this think is more or less impenetrable from the front for anything, besides weak spots like gun mantlet, altough even with penetration internal damage can be minor.

People I will repeat one more time, start using your brains and tactics and attack M1's from sides, rear or top (or bottom with mines and IED's), if you try to defeat M1 from the front, you are dead, simple as that.

Heck you will have problems defeating front armor of Russian tanks like T-80U or T-90A as well.

And before someone will say we are biased.

In RHS M1A2SEPv1 heavy composite armor provides comparable protection to T-90A composite armor + ERA, the difference is:

For turrets - 100mm in favor for M1 vs KE.
For hulls - 50mm in favor for M1 vs KE.

PS. And this is IMPORTANT!

If you people have problems, completely delete RHS and download it again. I tested M1's and other vehicles several times, and everything works ok.

It either means you have corrupt download, or you also have some mod that can cause problems.
(0008309)
7ftnick   
2018-08-22 01:32   
Ye I restarted the game and it seems working, still testing though.
Now most of the time it penetrates and kills the crew inside, but does not do any damage to the tank. But like reyhard said he will add some systems that will get dammaged but for what it is now it works ok.
Befor arma never performed this way for me, but literally something happens, and it starts doing weird things like some vehicles act weird or AI becoms unresponsive. I noticed it yesterday. Game restart usually fixes the issues.
(0008328)
Damian   
2018-08-22 22:16   
If you have such issues, the best way is to reinstall entire game and then do fresh download and installation of the mods.

I suspect corrupt downloads on your end.
(0008330)
7ftnick   
2018-08-23 06:49   
I did reinstall seems better now.
However the concer is about AI.
As you know arma supports the following components: Engine, Turret, Gun, Hull, R Track, L track.
And AI respond mostly to not alive or not canmove.
Although round penetrates and kills everyone insde, none of the upper components gets any damage. This makes tank a valid target for enemy AI,they will keep engaging it untill out of ammo.
AI driver will remail alive, because usually his compartment is not getting shot at.
So maybe it is possible to implement some sort of workaround to make it not a valid target for other AI after crew is killed, or to make driver get out or something ?